Specific differences between "old" and "new" Pythons?

[Naphtali]

While it might be challenging to refer to changes from original Colt Pythons to the current version — prewar Colt revolvers were TinkerToys® compared with S&W counterparts — as simplification, I believe that's what has occurred in a left-handed way. What are specific differences between "old" and "new" Pythons in terms of:

- lock work and associated action parts?

- tuning difficulties, as best you can?

- methods of manufacture?

 

[UncleEd]

Might be better off asking over
on the Colt Forum. Might get
a few answers. Or not.

I noted the new rear sight with
the Rube Goldberg set screw
design. A tiny screw requires
a wire thin allen wrench which
few people own and Colt does
not provide. Without the set
screw secured, the blade wobbles
all over the place.

Still, I haven't heard of any
canted barrels which I do seem
to see reports on S&Ws.

One actual improvement is the
cylinder/bolt stop which is
exactly like any found on a
S&W since 1900.

I believe the double action
trigger weight is entirely
dependent on the main
V-shaped spring (actually
a bit more U-shaped).
Owners, however, do like
the new appox. 8-pound
DA weight. I think it's
still a bit slow on the
return to reset just as the
old model was.

I hope others can chime in
on just what simplifications
were made, i.e. elimination
of some old design parts.

 

[03hemi]

While it might be challenging to refer to changes from original Colt Pythons to the current version — prewar Colt revolvers were TinkerToys® compared with S&W counterparts — as simplification, I believe that's what has occurred in a left-handed way. What are specific differences between "old" and "new" Pythons in terms of:

- lock work and associated action parts?

- tuning difficulties, as best you can?

- methods of manufacture?

The new Pythons had somewhere between 8-12 parts eliminated from the trigger and lock-up that were deemed unnecessary, giving it a smoother action without any stacking like the older models had.
The stainless is 33% stronger due to advancements in metallurgies.
The fit and finish are precisely fitted together due to the use of CNC mills (computer numerically controlled) to make the parts. This eliminates the time consuming hand fitting process of parts they had to go through because parts had to be made oversized in manufacturing on old manual mills.
The pull is a certainly little heavier, not by much though, but definitely feels slicker and smoother.
The "hex" key is just your common, tiniest hex key that comes in any hex set so it's not even an issue. There are a couple of cosmetic changes too.
The cylinder back stop has been deleted on the side of the frame.
As far as tuning? Why, there's no way to make it any better, none.
The serrations on the back-strap have been eliminated as well.
Pretty much it.
They did in fact go with S&W's cylinder bolt stop as an improvement over the old style. Mine locks up like a vault.
I love mine and I'm waiting on a King Cobra 3" as we speak, my pawn shop owner called me yesterday to see if I was interested.
Hope this helps?

 

[UncleEd]

Some 8-12 "unnecessary parts" in
the old design were dropped?
The OP wanted specifics.

Certainly in the new cylinder bolt/stop
design, the old armature and its screw
were dropped.

 

[03hemi]

Some 8-12 "unnecessary parts" in
the old design were dropped?
The OP wanted specifics.

Certainly in the new cylinder bolt/stop
design, the old armature and its screw
were dropped.

That's easily googled and on youtube, don't have the specifics, I'm just repeating what a Colt rep said and he actually went through the parts eliminated. He said 8 or 12, I can't remember the exact number.
He also wanted specific differences too, which I hit on those for him also.

 

[Walter Rego]

The newest edition of Handloader magazine (December 2021, No. 335) has a review of the new Colt Python with pretty detailed information regarding the old vs. new Pythons.

 

[2152hq]

The inside of the new Python isn't much different from the orig in so far as the mechanism itself is concerned.
How it is now manufactured and in some ways how the parts are now attached is what has changed. Also the size and strength of parts,,likely the geometry of some to improve performance which you feel when handling using the revolver.

That change to a S&W style bolt stop is probably the biggest design change.
Most all of the other parts look and operate as they did in the orig lockwork.
It still uses a 2 leaf main spring though now a U shape, The lower arm still powers the trigger and hand through the rebound lever.
The hand is still a 2 toothed afair and the cyl rotates CW. Cyl latch is the same style,, etc...

Little things like the the rebound lever is no longer attached to the frame with a pivot pin but rather it sits in a seat and pivots on a portion of the lever itself shaped to sit in that seat.
That elliminates one part,,,a simple pin
...along with the need to assemble the parts with it during final assembly as well as drill that hole in the parts during mfg. Now the parts can be CNC mfg with the proper shapes to simply be placed in position and the spring tension holds them securely.
Saves production & assembly costs.
Somewhere in there are other small parts savings like that.
I suspect maybe some in a transfer bar mechanism to replace the older multi part style of the orig lockwork.

Here's drawing/pic of the new Python in partial disassembly. You can see most of the lockwork and the similarity to the old style at least in shape.
The new bolt stop is pointed out with an arrow.



I've read where the top strap is supposed to be 30% thicker (heavier?) than the orig. Why, I don't know,,was that a problem?
Also the new issue grips will fit the originals. New grips are made of laminated wood? and machine checkered.
No MIM parts in the new Python.

The extractor is triangular shaped instead of the common 'star' shape that uniformly engages each of the 6 chambers. Looks a bit odd at first glance but does it's job I'm sure.

Nice gun, but I was never a Python devotee. So I won't be after a new one or an old one at this time.

 

[UncleEd]

2152hq,

Thank you.

 

[Naphtali]

. . . That change to a S&W style bolt stop is probably the biggest design change.
Most all of the other parts look and operate as they did in the orig lockwork.
It still uses a 2 leaf main spring though now a U shape, The lower arm still powers the trigger and hand through the rebound lever.
The hand is still a 2 toothed affair and the cyl rotates CW. Cyl latch is the same style,, etc...
. . .
Here's drawing/pic of the new Python in partial disassembly. You can see most of the lockwork and the similarity to the old style at least in shape.
The new bolt stop is pointed out with an arrow.


. . .

The two changes I highlighted in red were under tension when the old Colt DA revolvers' hammers dropped, I think. That rigidity of cylinder and barrel was supposed to be a significant reason for Colt's [especially Officer's New Service and Model Match, plus Pythons] accuracy superiority compared with S&Ws.

Do the new model Colt DA revolvers retain that tension among bolt, hand, and ratchet at hammer drop?

 

[The Norseman]

Colt 357 Python

Naphtali - Great question!

2152hq - thank you for taking the time for posting a
picture of the Python disassembled and explaining
what’s changed.

My take on everything I’ve read about the New Python,
is that for actual day in and day out shooting
they are a hell of a lot better.

Some day I might get one, just to have something
different. Thanks again for the Thread.

 

[.38SuperMan]

My dad bought a 4” Python in the early 60’s. Even as a kid I was impressed by how smooth the action was and how different it felt compared to his Smiths. I wouldn’t say it was better, just different. In the early 80’s, could have been late 70’s, I came across a great deal on a new 6” Python at a hardware store that was closing. I kept and shot that revolver until the prices ran out of sight and foolishly sold it. This past summer my local dealer had a new 4” at a discount and my wife said buy it. So, I bought it and I’m impressed. It as good or better than my old Python. I have no complaints at all.

Like 03hemi, I bought a new 3” King Cobra and although it developed a timing issue, I’m very pleased with it. On the second range trip it went seriously out of time but Colt fixed it in a timely manner and it’s perfect now. The KC is every bit as nicely finished as my Python and the action is equal in every way. Accuracy is everything you’d expect. I did swap my front sight on all my new Colts to a Marble green fiber optic which I like much better.

I became interested in snub nose and got the itch for a Colt. I wound up getting a Cobra 2” that I’m also very happy with. The finish isn’t as polished as the Python or KC and is a very attractive pebble satin sort of finish. It’s not frosted or brushed, sorta pebble like with a sheen. The action feels like the Python and KC, very nice. Accuracy is excellent as well.

This past weekend I bought a gen 3 Detective Specisl. I’m headed to the range today to try it so it’ll be interesting to see how the KC and Cobra stack up to it. Just dry firing it I’d say they’re comparable.

 

[brucev]

P.... Py .... Pyth.... (this is hard) Python! There! I said it! It was hard. Maybe now it will be easier to do more ... maybe look at one ... buy one ... maybe! Somebody help me! Maybe my wife will forgive me! I think I'm about to get in trouble! Sincerely. bruce.

 

[03hemi]

P.... Py .... Pyth.... (this is hard) Python! There! I said it! It was hard. Maybe now it will be easier to do more ... maybe look at one ... buy one ... maybe! Somebody help me! Maybe my wife will forgive me! I think I'm about to get in trouble! Sincerely. bruce.

It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?
My wife has no clue as to how many firearms I've collected? They all look the same to her, silver or black?

 

[mauser9]

Good thread and posts. My only thought "Will the older Pythons always be worth more than the new ones?

 

[CH4]

No MIM parts in the new Python.

Are sure about that?

My new Python's hammer definitely has a seam. Everything I've read so far claims the new Python has MIM parts that are possibly made by Pratt & Whitney.

To the OP's original question, and not sure it's been addressed yet, the new Python's front sight is interchangeable like some of the current Smith's. A feature I am looking forward to taking advantage of if I can actually find one of optional gold dot or night sight.

 

[2152hq]

I should have said according to some sources.

I've now read upon further research both no and yes to the ? of wether MIM parts construction is used in those guns.
I guess that question can't even be answered faithfully by the reviews.

I'll take your first hand account as proof that they are in fact using them.

 

[.38SuperMan]

Are sure about that?

My new Python's hammer definitely has a seam. Everything I've read so far claims the new Python has MIM parts that are possibly made by Pratt & Whitney.

To the OP's original question, and not sure it's been addressed yet, the new Python's front sight is interchangeable like some of the current Smith's. A feature I am looking forward to taking advantage of if I can actually find one of optional gold dot or night sight.

I know my King Cobra and Cobra have mim parts. It’s pretty obvious but I don’t really care. I like the case hardened look of vintage Smith hammers and triggers but functionally I’m not concerned. The only parts I’ve ever had fail in a gun have been forged not MIM.

I really like the ability to swap front sights. My KC and Cobra had gold beads which I found difficult to use. May be my eyes but I replaced both with a Marble fiber optic green sight and also swapped the red ramp on my Python with one. To my eyes they really have improved my ability to acquire the front sight.

 

[CH4]

I should have said according to some sources.

I've now read upon further research both no and yes to the ? of wether MIM parts construction is used in those guns.
I guess that question can't even be answered faithfully by the reviews.

I'll take your first hand account as proof that they are in fact using them.

If I came off sounding like an ***, it wasn't my intention. I am not a fan of MIM parts in my 1911s, Colts and Smiths, but learning to live with it. I'll try to remember to take a picture.

 

[2152hq]

Not at all! I only had the reviews I had read to rely on,,and they gave what ended up being bad info. My fault entirely for not searching further.
Victim of 'Hey I read it on the internet..it must be true!

I should have questioned it anyway since Colt has been using MIM or some form of it at least since the MkIII series revolvers came out.

 

[BubbaShakers]

For a discussion of the less-publicized differences between the old and new from a gunsmith that does action jobs on the new Pythons, see here:

The Heffron Precision Blog By: Mike Heffron

As for MIM internals, here is a photo of one of mine (click to enlarge).



Whereas many if the internal parts are MIM, the hammer and trigger of the new Python are NOT - if you examine them closely you can see what are clearly CNC milling marks.

Note that the hammer and trigger of the D frame models (Cobra , King Cobra) are MIM. Also, the fit and finish appears to be at a noticeably higher level on the Pythons than the D frames.