Speed loaders vs. Moon Clips

[kraigwy]

I shoot verious types of competition using Autos and Revolvers.

I seem to shoot better (and enjoy more) with my Model 64.

The problem is in reloading. I use HKS speedloaders now, but I'm not that fast.

I was thinking of having the revolver converted to moon clips but was told by one of my shooting buddies (who knows and shoots revolvers) that I should re-think that ideal.

He said the moon clips for K-frames are too thin and will give me problems.

He suggest I got to Comp "3" speed loaders, saying they are almost as fast as the moon clips but a lot more reliable.

Any Suggestions???? Are Comp "3" speedloaders that much better then HKS's.

I'd like to switch to my M-64 for all my handgun competitions (excluding Bullseye of course).

 

[Maximumbob54]

All the 625's I have seen will eject and load faster than I would beleive is possible with enough practice on the user's part. JM seems to be the current master of this. Then again, I also saw a video of a guy using an old top break chambered for .45ACP with moons and that was even faster. But then there is this guy with is 1911:

World's Fastest Reload - YouTube

I don't care how much I practice, I will never be that fluid with a mag change until I'm in heaven.

 

[Nick B.]

I have moonclip revolvers in 9mm and 38sp and the 6 shot guns do use a moonclip that is pretty thin, they are easy to damage if you are not careful.
I also find that the 38sp being a longer cartridge has more 'play' in them and that the reload is not as positive.

Clearing the cylinder of empty brass is still more positive.

The 8 shot 38 sps are much better, but that is not what you asked.

The Comp lll speedloaders are light years ahead of the HKS for speed and positive insertion of the cartridges. I would buy a couple and practise with them for a few weeks and see what you think, I think you will like them and see a big improvement in your reloading plus it will be cheaper than converting to moonclips.

NB

 

[calmex]

I have a K-38 Heavy Barrel that has been cut for moonclips. However, I generally just use Comp III's when shooting. The moonclips are neat, and maybe a second faster on a perfect reload and .5 second faster GENERALLY (and maybe slower if you fumble them) than Comp III's. Since nobody else down here has moonclips, using moonclips to win would be silly when Comp III's will do the job and everyone has those. Yes, Comp III's are a little faster GENERALLY than the H.K.S., but I've seen some great H.K.S. reloads as well.

Anything you really need to do with a K-frame you can pretty much do with the Comp III's. The moonclips ARE faster (in a perfect World)...but not by much in the K's. And if you grab the little K-clips wrong under pressure...well, they DO bend easy.

Mover 004.avi - YouTube

 

[haggis]

You can load with COMP 3's just about as fast as with moon clips, but it takes practice. One of our local USPSA Model 15 shooters can load faster than most semiauto guys do until they make Master class.

However, the main advantage to moons is that all of the empties come out at once. I've never seen a moon clipped gun get an empty stuck behind the ejector star, but it happens on non-moon revolvers. That's a bad way to blow a stage, and it could be worse if you're shooting for your life.

Buck

 

[GSWEAR]

I don't know what comeptitions you are shooting with your M-64 but in IDPA moon clips will put you in ESR and you will have to shoot major power factor loads (a min of 1044fps with a 158gr bullet) which you may or may not want to do, if you are going to shoot ESR a 625 is probably the way to go.
In ICORE it will move you from Retro to limited shooting against 8 shot 627's which may not be a big deal to you.
If your gun is stock a chamfer job on the cylinder and some comp III's or Jet loaders will make a world of difference.

Greg

 

[M1911-66]

Safariland Comp IIIs or JetLoaders are, indeed, a lot faster than HKS Speedloaders. They do take practice.

If you use Speedloaders, that 64 would be a great gun for IDPA SSR.

 

[tomcatt51]

He said the moon clips for K-frames are too thin and will give me problems.

Your buddy's right. Use speedloaders with your K frame and get the chambers chamfered. If you're going to buy speedloaders get Jetloaders, they're a better Comp III.

 

[cyberiad]

Any Suggestions???? Are Comp "3" speedloaders that much better then HKS's.

Yes, they are. Get Comp IIIs or Jet Loaders. I prefer Jet Loaders myself but either will work fine.

 

[M1911-66]

I also prefer JetLoaders over Comp IIIs. Either will work a lot better than HKS.

 

[Mr.parker]

I had my 586 cut for moon clips about 5 years ago I don't regret it, but I find it very hard to find clips for it. I have to order them from the people that did the work on it, And like your friend said the are thin, bend easy and that can be a pain in the rear... and they are a lot more expensive than the clips for the 45acp.. knowing what I know now I belive i would have been a lot better off buying jet loaders or the comp-lll loaders..

 

[David Sinko]

Some competitors will disassemble the Comp III loaders and do some strategic sanding of the parts to get the cartridges to release even faster. I remember seeing instructions on how to do this somewhere online.

Dave Sinko

 

[badguybuster]

I have two of the 8rd aluminum speedloaders for my 627-5 and they are considerably faster than the moon clips. I think mainly due to the fact that they hold more of the case inside so there isnt as much play. I have a hard time indexing the moon clips at speed

 

[growr]

I must be the odd man out on this...still using HKS speedloaders and seem to have no problems in speedy re-loads when I use my K/L/N frame guns in USPSA/IDPA/ICORE matches.

I have found that bullet profile makes a HUGE difference in making a speedy reload. My favorite for .38/357 is actually a 9mm 147 grain truncated cone. It is butter smooth and is plenty accurate for the action pistol games.

I will admit that my favorite revolver to shoot is my 25-2 with full moon clips.

Randy

 

[M1911-66]

Randy, spend some time with Comp IIIs or JetLoaders and then tell us whether you still prefer HKS.

 

[growr]

Will have to get some and try....Also, I have noticed that reloads on my model 28 and HKS is significantly smoother and faster than on my K frame guns and HKS loaders. I think that is because the cylinder holes are farther apart on the N frame over the k frames. Could be totally wrong. Haven't used a timer yet to see for sure.
Still like the full moon clip best of all......
Randy

 

[Jim Watson]

I shot IDPA SSR with clipped .38s for a while before they split the division into clip guns and speedloader guns.
Like the .45s, they had the advantage of loading six as a package and unloading six as a package. Which not only saves time and avoids empties under the star, but also guarantees you 100% brass recovery. This even at a sanctioned match where the auto and speedloader shooters are operating on a lost brass basis.

The disadvantages are that you cannot use mixed brass, not all .38s have the right relief groove ahead of the rim to take clips.
The long skinny .38s flop around more than short stubby .45s in thick clips. This means you have to get the gun pointed straight down so the cartridges dangle straight for easy entry. I don't think I ever got very skilled in the technique and I did not mind returning to speedloaders when they split the division.

Instead of an $80 conversion and $6 clips, try one each Comp III and Jetloader and see if that is not faster than HKS.

 

[BILL]

Here's some reloads with cut down Comp llls.

Revolver Reload with Speed Loaders - YouTube

 

[kraigwy]

I picked up a couple Comp IIIs to see what they are all about, I'm quite impressed.

Right off the bat, my (reloading) speed has come down. I think with a bit of practice the Comp III's will be the answer to my problems.

Plus the added benifit I can stay in the stock revolver class.

 

[Palmetto Sharpshooter]

I have used Comp IIIs for many years. For you guys that prefer Jetloaders, why?

 

[tomcatt51]

I have used Comp IIIs for many years. For you guys that prefer Jetloaders, why?

They're MUCH easier to disassemble and cut down and clean. I take .300" off the body and .125" off the center pin so they get the rds into the chambers better.

 

[M1911-66]

I have used Comp IIIs for many years. For you guys that prefer Jetloaders, why?

JetLoaders have a narrower diameter and shorter barrel. They also do not have a slippery plastic shroud over the spring. That makes them easier for me to grip and I can grip them more securely. I don't grip them over the top - I grip them from the side, on the barrel only.

 

[M1911-66]

Here's some reloads with cut down Comp llls.

Revolver Reload with Speed Loaders - YouTube

That's nice!

 

[BobR1]

I am also using a S&W 64. I have painted the upper 1/2 of the front sight with Green Sight Brite sight paint.
I had Ron Power (Power Custom) do his ball loc modification, as well as chamfer the chambers on mine.
I have been using Comp III loaders.
For a holster I am using a Lobo Enhanced Pancake with Inner Hammer Shield.
I have not settled on speed loader holders so far. The choices seem to be Blade Tec, Ready Tactical, and Tallon Tactical.
I may have Boomstick Holsters make them for me, as he is a personal friend of mine, and I shoot with him. He is great with kydex.
REVISED: I ended up going with North Mountain IDPA Compliant speedloader holders. I think I picked the correct ones.

I had a smoking run last Sunday at our local Sportsman's Club Outlaw IDPA match, and smoked the CDP and SSP guys with the old 64. I beat my own CDP score by 2 points. That will probably never happen again. A combination of the right stages, and not missing a beat with the Comp III speed loaders.

Good Luck with your 64. I am shooting my 64 more than any other handgun I own.

Like was said above with 38 Special Moon Clips you will be done with range brass. or sorting brass. You will probably end up going with Remington and or Federal Brass. The issue with brass is the rim under cut groove size. It is different on Remington & Federal, Winchester, and Starline. You would probably need to get the moon clips for the brass you are going to use.
CORRECTION: Looks like TK makes the Competition Clips for the K Frame for Remington & Federal brass only.
Looks like Starline for the 686 clips.


I have a 686 converted to moon clips. I also have a 625, 610, and 310NG. The 686 does not work as slick as the bigger rounds.

Also like was said above, moon clips takes you out of SSR Division.

Bob

 

[petitelady]

Jet Loaders?

I found a JetLoader to fit my gun but not a Comp III. I have a J-frame 5-shot .357. Does Comp III make one I'm missing?

 

[APS]

There is a Comp1 for J frame 5 shot.

 

[Andy Griffith]

The cadillac of the speedloader world is the SL Variant, which has just become available again here in the US. There is a spring on each round, and they are all held very tightly in the loader. I like them better than the comp III, but they have never made make Comp III's for .44 Special and .45 Colt 6-shot nor J-frames either.

The Jetloader is the fastest loader for J-framed .38's.

 

[mr.elite]

comp 3's is way faster then hks. get some snap caps and practice. You wont be dissapointed.

 

[dwever]

Captain Stuart,

I didn't read the whole three pages; so if this was covered my apologies.

Yes, regular moon clips are too flimsy, match grade moon clips are not. However, they are a bit pricey at sixty dollars plus for ten - but you can reload really really fast, even with a flat nosed bullet like Winchester white box.

Try the guy at Welcome to TK Custom.com & Moonclips.com.

 

[tomcatt51]

Yes, regular moon clips are too flimsy, match grade moon clips are not.

Unfortunately, all K (and J) frame moonclips are pretty flimsy (and bend when you look at them too hard). There just isn't room between the ratchet hub and chamber for much moonclip.