anchors
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Can anything be put on the inside of a speed strip pouch to keep the ammo from turning green? I was thinking of some good paste wax.
Speed strip pouches
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Crazy K38
Member
well I have heard the fabric that the 'under armour' shirts are made of are moisture wicking and it is very thin so I think that it will keep from sticking the ammo in place, I would try it.
Vulcan Bob
Member
Boy, only thing I have found that works is ammo with nickel plated case's. Even with nickel they need a bit of cleaning now and again. Perhaps the dreaded nylon material for the pouch?
Of course, moisture is the cause, either moisture content in the air or in the leather. Guns left in new green leather holsters or ammo left in new carriers can be a problem. In your area it may be moisture in the air is keeping the leather damp. The leather can be dried with desicant, dry sand or talcum powder, provided you can get it all out. An air hose and tooth brush is useful for that. The material used may dis-color the leather slightly, so re-dying may be necessary but not difficult. Leather dye will further dry the leather providing that it is not a water based dye.
Alternatives are to use the ammo and replace it frequently or remove it daily.
Alternatives are to use the ammo and replace it frequently or remove it daily.
Alk8944
US Veteran
The problem seems to be worst if the leather is oil treated. If yours is I would replace it with with a new one that is not oiled. This corrosion is the reason ammunition intended for police service was Nickeled, so get some the has Nickeled cases. Most high quality ammunition intended for self-defense is plated. Finally, periodically shoot what you ave been carrying and replace it with new. Nickel plated cases will corrode, but it takes months for it to develop.
Don't know if any of you are old enough to remember the 'gold' lockets from the $.05 bubble gum machines. They'd turn your girl friend's neck green. Anyway, brass reacts with skin, either people or animals. I don't know if it's moisture specifically. But it happens no matter. Change the ammo out frequently, and/or switch to nickel cases. I had some 20 year old brass ammo in a leather wallet type carrier that only had 2 or 3 rounds with brass corrosion.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
The green crud that forms on copper-based alloys (like brass cartridge cases and cupro-nickle bullet jackets) in contact with leather is known as verdigris. Verdigris can be removed quite easily using a rag dampened with club soda, which should leave no stains on the leather and do no harm to the cartridges.
Nothing is absolutely certain to prevent this process over time, but Johnson's Paste Wax is as good as anything and will not harm either the leather or the cartridges. A good application to the interior surfaces of the pouch about once per year should do the trick.
Regarding the above comments about oiled leather: neatsfoot oil compound is used in the finishing of vegetable-tanned leather because it infuses the leather fibers and remains there, offering reasonable protection against moisture infiltration (which can result in mildew and mold growth), and also providing a degree of flexibility to the finished product. Leather products finished without oiling, no matter how well sealed with acrylic finishes, will readily absorb moisture and can crack at stress points with repeated use. Neatsfoot oil, properly applied during the finishing process, provides long term benefits; however, additional applications of neatsfoot oil should be avoided, since excessive oiling will result in a limp and useless leather product.
I will readily admit that many holster makers do not agree with me on this point, relying completely on modern acrylic sealants. All I can say is that I have seen holsters that I made more than 30 years ago still in use to this day. The old time saddle makers knew what they were doing, and neatsfoot oil (along with beeswax) were the finishes of choice for many generations prior to acrylics, and saddles are far more exposed to the elements than most of our holsters will ever be.
Nothing is absolutely certain to prevent this process over time, but Johnson's Paste Wax is as good as anything and will not harm either the leather or the cartridges. A good application to the interior surfaces of the pouch about once per year should do the trick.
Regarding the above comments about oiled leather: neatsfoot oil compound is used in the finishing of vegetable-tanned leather because it infuses the leather fibers and remains there, offering reasonable protection against moisture infiltration (which can result in mildew and mold growth), and also providing a degree of flexibility to the finished product. Leather products finished without oiling, no matter how well sealed with acrylic finishes, will readily absorb moisture and can crack at stress points with repeated use. Neatsfoot oil, properly applied during the finishing process, provides long term benefits; however, additional applications of neatsfoot oil should be avoided, since excessive oiling will result in a limp and useless leather product.
I will readily admit that many holster makers do not agree with me on this point, relying completely on modern acrylic sealants. All I can say is that I have seen holsters that I made more than 30 years ago still in use to this day. The old time saddle makers knew what they were doing, and neatsfoot oil (along with beeswax) were the finishes of choice for many generations prior to acrylics, and saddles are far more exposed to the elements than most of our holsters will ever be.
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flop-shank
US Veteran
Cheap SOBs
This subject is exactly why ammo makers who charge over a buck a round for premium defensive ammo, but are too cheap to assemble the load in a nickeled case, really piss my off.
This subject is exactly why ammo makers who charge over a buck a round for premium defensive ammo, but are too cheap to assemble the load in a nickeled case, really piss my off.
KD_Holsters
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With respect to holsters cracking because of the use of acrylic sealants and readily absorbing moisture - it's not from that. The holsters crack because they were made from piss poor leather to begin with. A holster that has been made from top quality leather and properly sealed will not crack and absorb moisture.
Use of neatsfoot oil on a holster will result in a holster that becomes broken down and useless (unless you want a holster that's soft) in a short amount of time. If neatsfoot oil were the proper application, don't you think that any one of the top end custom holster makers would be using it and endorsing it? I don't know of any who fall into that category, to include Milt Sparks, Alessi, Matt Del Fatti, etc. Those particular holster makers have been making holsters for 30+ years. Just a thought....
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
A very good example of why there are multiple makers and methods. We don't all agree on every point.
I will agree that there is a lot of poor quality leather on the market. That is why I do business only with reputable US sources like Hermann Oak and Wickett & Craig.
From everything that I have seen and heard, K&D makes a very fine product and provides good service to customers.
Best wishes.
elcruisr
US Veteran
Well, I carry in an acrylic sealed IWB holster every day in a wood shop environment. After several years of it the only holsters that DON'T get wet with sweat I've found are acrylic sealed!
KD_Holsters
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True, there may be differences, but the customer needs to be made aware of the truth of the matter. Some holster makers are in this industry and have no clue what they're doing. Methodology changes/evolves over time and to the better.
Carrying concealed is a serious business and as holster makers we have the responsibility in ensuring the holsters are functional in every sense. At least that's my perspective. I could be wrong though.
Carrying concealed is a serious business and as holster makers we have the responsibility in ensuring the holsters are functional in every sense. At least that's my perspective. I could be wrong though.
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LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
I agree that carrying a weapon, concealed or not, is a serious business. I learned about that during two tours in Vietnam as an airborne infantryman, followed by 24 years as a cop. I believe that I have a little understanding about armed combat; others may have more than I.
As far as "the truth of the matter", as you prefer to frame your argument, there is plenty of room for several opinions. Some holster makers are indeed in the business with no clue about what they are doing; some of us have been there and done that, and can share the results of real-life experience with others.
Methodologies do change, new products and techniques evolve over time. Acrylic sealants are an excellent example, and I use acrylic sealants myself AFTER I have done everything that can be done to protect the leather from moisture and cracking, which includes the application of techniques that have stood the test of time for many generations.
So, please feel free to continue sharing your knowledge and experience. I will do the same, without gratuitously attacking what others have to offer.
Best wishes.
KD_Holsters
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I spent 20 years in the military and law enforcement, plus I've been carrying a gun nearly the whole time since I've been retired. So with 30+ years of that, I believe I have a depth of real-life knowledge and experience in that respect.
My only goal here is to educate the end user on what they should consider when looking for a holster, or accessory. I was simply providing information for folks to give serious thought to. The customer should be able to make an informed decision about the selection of their holster.
But, alas, I'll leave the expression of knowledge on what they should consider to you, since you seem to articulate those opinions so well.
Good luck to you and to those here on this forum. I'm outa here - see ya!
My only goal here is to educate the end user on what they should consider when looking for a holster, or accessory. I was simply providing information for folks to give serious thought to. The customer should be able to make an informed decision about the selection of their holster.
But, alas, I'll leave the expression of knowledge on what they should consider to you, since you seem to articulate those opinions so well.
Good luck to you and to those here on this forum. I'm outa here - see ya!
flop-shank
US Veteran
Settle Down Guys!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, both of you are higly regarded here, and I have no doubt that both of your holsters will last for many years, if not a lifetime. FWIW, I'm impartial to both makers. I don't own either of their products. Just like the variances in good ammo, it's pointless to get into a neatsfoot oil pissing contest. KD and Lobo, don't go anywhere. Were it not for you guys, I wouldn't even know such a debate exists.
Seriously, both of you are higly regarded here, and I have no doubt that both of your holsters will last for many years, if not a lifetime. FWIW, I'm impartial to both makers. I don't own either of their products. Just like the variances in good ammo, it's pointless to get into a neatsfoot oil pissing contest. KD and Lobo, don't go anywhere. Were it not for you guys, I wouldn't even know such a debate exists.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Thank you for your timely comments. This thread has wandered far off the path intended by the original poster, and it is time to put it behind us.
sipowicz
Member
I agree...and might I add that I have been using Neat's foot oil for years and my toes have never been more supple.
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