Speed strips?

[Brian Parrish]

ASP

John Correia at Active Self Protection, his YouTube channel, still says that no armed citizen reloads under fire. He says if YOU ever do that, you "will be the first armed citizen ever to have done so." He did a study of how many rounds were "needed" analyzing many years of thousands of videos including all the ones he watched for show prep but never included on his channel. He showed very few that needed six rounds, none more. It is not round count, but the first anatomically significant hits that matter. He shows one recently where a revolver guy "needed" all six rounds, but that is debateable.

If you are carrying a revolver, are you going to do what amounts to a "mag dump"? A cylinder dump? Or are you going to fire once and assess? Are you going to double tap and then assess? Is there any way to know what you are going to do when you are in the fight of your life, for your life?

I had to quit watching the "mag dump" videos on YT, because it is so disheartening. It does not instill confidence in LEO's, y'know? Most people will just thrust the weapon in the general direction of the threat and run the trigger until it occurs to them to stop.

This actually works to save lives!!!

It works so well so often, that I believe in tempering my comments on such subjects as caliber, especially.45ACP versus 9mm, spare mags, barrel length, carry position, etc., etc.
It works so well so often that you must understand that when you are practicing reloads, you are preparing for the worst-case scenario. Yes, if you are ready for the worse thing, a fortiori, you are ready for the better thing.

(Here is an anecdote, which does not prove anything but does illustrate my thinking
There were two officers pursuing a perp who wrecked his car and jumped out shooting. Happens a lot. Both cops jumped out and started shooting, emptying five 17 round magazines, between the two of them, at the man who emptied his pistol at them.
They were about a car length apart.
Nobody was hit.
He was arrested successfully and prosecuted successfully.
This is a total win in my book.

Please correct me. I write on the internet to give people an opportunity to contradict me. That is how I learn.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

 

[Sistema1927]

I send a request to Zeta asking if they would consider making theirs for .32. Here is the response:

Hi (Sistema),

I really like the 32 magnum. We met with Smith and Wesson and their distributor, Lipsey, at SHOT Show this past January. They were both very excited about seeing a Zeta6 speedloader for their new 32 magnum. But since the January show, only crickets. No word from S&W or replies to our emails.

So, while we want to enter the 32 caliber market, we must continue to wait until we see some support from manufacturers.

Michael
--
Michael Lyle
Zeta Industries

I'm scratching my head wondering why they need help from either S&W or Lipseys. Are they expecting them to be their customer? If they "really like the .32 Magnum", and "want to enter the .32 market", why would they need assistance from either S&W or Lipseys?

Am I missing something?

 

[biku324]

Data from manufacturer's specs would be my guess. Gun and ammo builders.

 

[stansdds]

John Correia at Active Self Protection, his YouTube channel, still says that no armed citizen reloads under fire. He says if YOU ever do that, you "will be the first armed citizen ever to have done so."

That may well be true, but I look at a reload in the same way I view the fire extinguisher I carry in my vehicle. I don't plan on using it, but if I ever need it, it's there. And yes, I have had one occasion where I did have to use my fire extinguisher.

 

[Matt_X]

John Correia at Active Self Protection, his YouTube channel, still says that no armed citizen reloads under fire. He says if YOU ever do that, you "will be the first armed citizen ever to have done so." He did a study of how many rounds were "needed" analyzing many years of thousands of videos including all the ones he watched for show prep but never included on his channel. He showed very few that needed six rounds, none more. It is not round count, but the first anatomically significant hits that matter.

.... Is there any way to know what you are going to do when you are in the fight of your life, for your life?

...

This actually works to save lives!!!
... Yes, if you are ready for the worse thing, a fortiori, you are ready for the better thing.

...
Please correct me. I write on the internet to give people an opportunity to contradict me. That is how I learn.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

I'll give this a shot, but I think your point is key to why having extra rounds is prudent. We can not know exactly how we will react when a situation unfolds. We can train and practice mechanical skills. But even in combat there are examples of soldiers who freeze or get excited the frst time in spite of all their training, and sometims soldiers with experience who freeze or get excited. We see performance in sports varies all the time. It's a mistake to assume it will be different in emergency circumstances that call for mental and physical response.


So, lets review Mr. C's assertion. I'll posit that it carries a faulty assumptions. First, that his videos reviews capture all the defensive gun usages that have occurred. That's just ridiculous even though video is more common now than two decades ago, it is not in many locations and it certainly was not in the past. Nor is it always shared. To be correct his statement should be if YOU ever do that on video, you "will be the first armed citizen ever to have done so that I've seen."

Second, that a reload 'under fire' is the only time a reload will be needed. After the immediate threat has been stopped, but before help arrives, making a reload could be very prudent. This is true whether you're in an urban area - where help is going to be relatively quick, or in a rural area, or way out in the wilderness.


I'm not sure where the 'anatomicly significant hits' fits in. My understanding is that many defensive gun usages involve no shots fired. And another signifcant percentage involve 'psychological effect' - the attacker is stopped or flees when either fired at or hit in nearly any manner. I guess his point is that 5 shots should be enough, point taken. But that's not an arguement for whether having a reload available is prudent. Its akin to saying that situational awareness should ensure no shots are needed. That's true. But some still think it is prudent to be prepared to respond to deadly force.

 

[Erich]

I don't carry revolvers much these days, but I have a variety of mechanisms for reloading them faster than one chamber at a time. Here's some stuff recycled from an old post I made here.




Nothing is faster for my LCR than a J-Clip-R - wow, it works GREAT. Rounds go right in and the rubbery plastic peels right off. That LCR is fast to reload with these.


Because they're not easily distinguishable from the J-Clips, I put the yellow tape on so I know what's what and don't carry the wrong one with the wrong gun (I store the J-Clip-Rs with the LCR, but still.)


Not so with the J-Clips in the J-frame. The rounds seem reluctant to slip into the chambers and the plastic seems less pliable. The rounds strip off, but less readily. I'm faster with a Safariland Comp 2 . . . and even with an HKS, believe it or not.


The J-Clips seem to work better for me in an SP-101 than in a J-frame, FWIW (they seem to fit the chambers better and faster) - and that's where I'm using them right at the moment.


The K-PAK is what a speed strip should have been in the first place: blop, blop, close the cylinder and you're back in the game. Wow, they're fast, with either the Rhino or the Speed Six. You can see from the photo above that they're not especially obtrusive for carry and they're a LOT faster to load than an old fashioned Speed Strip.


I have played around more with the CK Tactical Ripcord loaders since I wrote them up (feel free to search here; I don't care to take the time), and I actually find them faster than the K-PAK with the Rhino. The Speed Six is fast with the K-PAK, but I think the Safariland Comp-2 is faster. Maybe not the HKS, though.

Things to remember as we go into the future: these things are wear items - plastic becomes brittle and stiff and speed strips break.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

When I'm carrying a .38 or .357 revolver, I always have a speed strip. When it's a K/L/N frame and occasionally with a J frame, I've got a speedloader as well. The speed strip is there to top off the gun after an incident, at least in theory. Thankfully, I haven't had to do that outside of training/practice. I hope I never have to do that for real.

Tom Givens is a trainer of some repute. I've taken two of his classes. He has upwards of 70 students who've had to use their pistols in a defensive situation. None of them have had to reload during their gunfight, though some shot to slide lock.

 

[Sistema1927]

Data from manufacturer's specs would be my guess. Gun and ammo builders.

I bet that I could find everything that they would need in five minutes on the interwebs. And if I couldn't, 10 minutes with a caliper on a cylinder and a round of ammo.

 

[BB57]

I'm fond of the Bianchi Speeds Strips when it's not practical to carry a speed loader. I load six rounds in the strip and it fits perfectly in the watch pocket of my Wranglers.

I can retrieve them quickly without having to look down. Works for me!

I've found the K-Pak also fits the watch pocket in a pair of jeans quite well.

 

[Sistema1927]

Update on my communication with Zeta concerning producing their products for .32.

They say that they need some help from S&W and/or Lipseys in promotion since they need to be assured of selling at least 1,000 units to break even on their production costs. I told them that I would buy 4 each of any style that they produce, so you guys need to step up and buy the other 996.

 

[John Patrick]

Fwiw, I had either Rugged or Lobo Holsters (can't recall which at the moment) make me one six and one seven round vertical speed strip holder with a belt loop.

They work really well and I prefer them to the common horizontal holders. But I think I'll have them make me a seven rounder with a snap strap or something so it's easier to carry on my left side. I' righty with handguns but lefty with long guns and very accustomed to loading long guns and semiautomatics with my left hand.

 

[Hawg Rider]

Why limit yourself to speed strips that holds or 6 rounds.
There are examples that hold 8 or 10.
Just because your gun only holds 6 rounds doesn't mean you have to carry 6 round strips and nothing more.

+1! I've used speed strips (mostly Tuff, but some others too!) for years, particularly when I pocket carry a J-frame revolver. They are flat and easy to conceal in the offhand pocket. I don't ever expect or intend to be in an extended gunfight, so I don't carry more than 2 strips for a J-frame. I recently had a senior moment and was going to order some speed strips for my new 7-shot Model 686-6+. Then the light came on...I already had 8-shot speed strips for my PC Model 627-5 so why did I need to order 7-shot strips??? Nothing wrong with an extra round on each strip, or I could leave one hole empty for a better grip. As Homer Simpson would say...Dohhh! 8-round strips fit perfectly in my side pocket so that's what I'm going to carry for all of my .357/.38 Spl. revolvers. I do have plenty of speed loaders, but I don't wear a sport coat like Dirty Harry ("you always carry 3, Harry"), so they're difficult to conceal. Just my 2 cents.

 

[biku324]

I bet that I could find everything that they would need in five minutes on the interwebs. And if I couldn't, 10 minutes with a caliper on a cylinder and a round of ammo.

That means my guess is worth doodly-squat.

 

[Brian Parrish]

(snip)... So, lets review Mr. C's assertion. I'll posit that it carries a faulty assumptions. First, that his videos reviews capture all the defensive gun usages that have occurred. That's just ridiculous even though video is more common now than two decades ago, it is not in many locations and it certainly was not in the past. Nor is it always shared. To be correct his statement should be if YOU ever do that on video, you "will be the first armed citizen ever to have done so that I've seen."

Second, that a reload 'under fire' is the only time a reload will be needed. After the immediate threat has been stopped, but before help arrives, making a reload could be very prudent. This is true whether you're in an urban area - where help is going to be relatively quick, or in a rural area, or way out in the wilderness.


I'm not sure where the 'anatomicly significant hits' fits in. My understanding is that many defensive gun usages involve no shots fired. And another signifcant percentage involve 'psychological effect' - the attacker is stopped or flees when either fired at or hit in nearly any manner. I guess his point is that 5 shots should be enough, point taken. But that's not an arguement for whether having a reload available is prudent. Its akin to saying that situational awareness should ensure no shots are needed. That's true. But some still think it is prudent to be prepared to respond to deadly force.

Thank you for your response. I do appreciate your contribution here which you make from time to time.

--Video Reviews?
Including so many here on our wonderful forum, Correia like almost everybody else seems to forget the principle of survivorship bias in statistical analysis and the problems associated with anecdotal evidence. As far as he is concerned, this should have happened somewhere once. The quote you mentioned however does not come from his videos, but from the research of Chris Baker, LuckyGunner.com. Baker did not coin the phrase, "...the first ever to have done so..." but he does not say whom he is quoting. I believe, and please correct me, this has been conventional wisdom in the armed citizen training community, like ...forever.

He created a stir a few years ago when he took issue with Mas Ayoob who has maintained, consistently over the decades that he has been training and consulting, that the armed citizen must carry a reload. They traded YouTube rebuttals for a while until they saw each other at Shot Show and took a smiley picture together. Awwwwwww...we are all friends you know.

He eventually decided to clarify and modify his teaching. Nowadays, he says do it if you also have the other things that are more important taken care of first, e.g. a wound treatment kit.

 

[smoothshooter]

I'm fond of the Bianchi Speeds Strips when it's not practical to carry a speed loader. I load six rounds in the strip and it fits perfectly in the watch pocket of my Wranglers.

I can retrieve them quickly without having to look down. Works for me!

Does anyone make a holster like that that has a protective flap that extends up a couple of inches on the inboard side to keep the hammer from digging into the carrier's side?

 

[Erich]

Does anyone make a holster like that that has a protective flap that extends up a couple of inches on the inboard side to keep the hammer from digging into the carrier's side?

Yes, lots of makers do. Start nosing around and you'll find them and then figure out which of the many designs appeal most to your style of carry.

 

[smithman 10]

They do wear out

Recently handled the Bianchi strip that rode in the glove compartment of my car, where it was subject to great heat at times. Don't know how long it had been there.

I grabbed it and it just came apart. I've had a couple others fail after some time but just bought replacements - such a good idea I'll always have a few.

 

[WardenRoss]

Does anyone make a holster like that that has a protective flap that extends up a couple of inches on the inboard side to keep the hammer from digging into the carrier's side?

Bianchi makes a few...

Holster Finder

,

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

If you are carrying a revolver, are you going to do what amounts to a "mag dump"? A cylinder dump? Or are you going to fire once and assess? Are you going to double tap and then assess? Is there any way to know what you are going to do when you are in the fight of your life, for your life?

(Here is an anecdote, which does not prove anything but does illustrate my thinking
There were two officers pursuing a perp who wrecked his car and jumped out shooting. Happens a lot. Both cops jumped out and started shooting, emptying five 17 round magazines, between the two of them, at the man who emptied his pistol at them.
They were about a car length apart.
Nobody was hit.
He was arrested successfully and prosecuted successfully.
This is a total win in my book.

Please correct me.
Kind Regards!
BrianD

Brian has great points to think about.

I think people should get raining like at Thunder Ranch. They will have a Shooter Mindset and shoot better too. Cops should get the next level of Training too. With Training you will have confidence to shoot it out if you have to.

As a cop I had been on call where a armed security guard surrendered his .38 revolver to a bad guy with a .25 ACP. Another was a Liquor Store clerk who let the bad guy (who said he had a gun in his jacket pocket) behind the counter and bad guy emptied the cash register and took the .38 that was under the countertop.

Don't forget the Onion Field. The Onion Field - Wikipedia

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

On Topic again. I do like Bianchi Speed Strips but I EDC a OWB holster and I have a single speedloader pouch.

But when I started we had Dump Pouches so I am okay with loose rounds too.

My tip for revolver carriers; don't forget to count your rounds. Also it will help to prevent Tunnel Vision.

 

[oink]

As I recently mentioned in another thread I use old surpluss 9mm clips for my speed strips. Not as quick as a speed loader but much more compact. They never go bad unless you let them rust. They do require a little breaking in (stretching) so they fit the .38 rims better. I was running low due to just loss and having given some away over the years but I think I've found more at Sarco they call "Universal 9mm Clip". About $1.60 each after shipping if you buy at least 10. I ordered 10 yesterday so I'll see. The rounds do shift on the clips a bit but it's not really a problem as they kind of recenter on the champer mouths with most bullets types.
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