Speer 135 grain .38 .Spl SB GDHP ammo

[Steve in Vermont]

Dont have the latest manual, maybe you could share the load data.
It would greatly be apreciated.

Pete

Any particular powder?

 

[shooter1911]

If you think Speer 135gr 38+P is hard to find try finding the Speer 135gr .357 Magnum version.

 

[SOUTHPAW]

www.ammoseek.com...Speer GDHP 357mag SB 135gr.

CCI 357 Magnum by CCI 357 Mag, 135 gr, GDHP Short Barrel, (Per 20) - 23917


http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2CCI23917-1.html

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0002023917

 

[pete950]

Any particular powder?

No particular powder. Just what ever duplicates this load out of a 2 to 2.5 inch barrell.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

No particular powder. Just what ever duplicates this load out of a 2 to 2.5 inch barrell.

Pete, According to the Speer# 14 Manual the loadings for the 135 gr GDHP SB are, obviously in +P:

AA# 7: 7.8 (start) to 8.2 (max)
AA# 5: 6.6 - 7.0
HS-6: 6.8 - 7.2
Power Pistol: 6.0 - 6.4
Unique: 4.8 - 5.2

The test firearm was a S&W M15 2"

Hope this helps.

 

[pete950]

Pete, According to the Speer# 14 Manual the loadings for the 135 gr GDHP SB are, obviously in +P:

AA# 7: 7.8 (start) to 8.2 (max)
AA# 5: 6.6 - 7.0
HS-6: 6.8 - 7.2
Power Pistol: 6.0 - 6.4
Unique: 4.8 - 5.2

The test firearm was a S&W M15 2"

Hope this helps.

Steve,
Thank you

 

[BobR1]

I ran the Reloading Numbers in Quick Load. It was not showing real special velocitys with the Max Loads shown. The Max Loads were showing right at 800 fps. The Pressure numbers were showing pretty tame also with most under 13,000 psi.

ADJUSTED Barrel Length to 3.4": I spooled all powders up to the top load showing under 18,500 psi. Looks like all powders listed when calculated at just under 18,500 psi pressure, are running at a calculated velocity between 917 and 937 fps.

ADDED: I had a 3.4" Barrel Length entered in the calculation. Barrel Length includes cylinder length on a revolver calculatioin. The program does not have any correction for velocity loss due to barrel to cylinder gap however. (Or I have not figured it out anyway) This would reduce the calculated velocity somewhat.

Anyone chronographed any factory 135 Short Barrel from a 2" gun? Just wondering what it is running.

Bob

 

[revolvergeek]

Some chronograph results from last September:

S&W 342, 1 7/8" barrrel, Speer Gold Dot 135 .38 Special +P
879.27, 846.02, 864.70, 866.12, 880.23
Avg 867.26 FPS

 

[BobR1]

If I were to venture a guess based on the velocity numbers above I would guess that factory Speer 135 Grain Short Barrel 38 Special +P ammunition is loaded to very nearly 18,500 psi.

I would also venture a guess that the loading data provided by Speer is no where close to the 38 Special +P Maximum Pressure of 18,500 psi based on the Quick Load calculations.

My guess is they know what they are doing loading their ammunition, and are loading it to the maximum pressure allowed for 38 Special +P. They probably have a Majic Velocity Number, and adjust the powder charge any time components are changed to maintain the Majic Velocity Number under controlled labratory conditions.
They do not know how good the rest of us reloaders are, or what we are using for equipment. Do we have a Lee Powder Dipper set or Digital Scales. With powder variations, different crimps, Standard and Magnum Primers, etc they are probably playing it safe with reduced book loading data.
Another thing probably keeping the loading data on the safe side would be the number of old non heat treated 38 Specials in circulation, and still being used.

I will have to take a day and do some testing, and see how close the Quick Load numbers are. I believe Midway shows the bullets back in stock.

Bob

 

[Robert B]

A couple of sources

Northwest Shooter's Supply in Washington state, and Proarms in Florida. Both have web sites, and ship UPS.

 

[Steve C]

If I were to venture a guess based on the velocity numbers above I would guess that factory Speer 135 Grain Short Barrel 38 Special +P ammunition is loaded to very nearly 18,500 psi.

I would also venture a guess that the loading data provided by Speer is no where close to the 38 Special +P Maximum Pressure of 18,500 psi based on the Quick Load calculations.

What you are looking to duplicate in load duplication is velocity. One only has to look at load data that lists pressure and velocity to see that with the right burn rate powder that higher velocity can be achieved with lower pressure.

If you want to duplicate a factory load you need a chronograph and some factory ammo to find out what velocity it does from your gun as individual firearms even of the same manufacturer and barrel length produce average velocities that are quite diverse.

You need to select a powder that the manual says produces the highest velocities. In the .38 spl that would be no faster than W231 up to as slow as Blue Dot. In the .38 spl I've never had any problem equaling or slightly exceeding factory +P with Unique. I also usually record velocities from my 4" revolvers that the manual says it gets from a 6". My hand loads may produce more muzzle flash than the factory loads but they often add flash suppressant to the powder that isn't available to hand loaders.

The factory 135gr GD +P Short Barrel only does around 858 fps from a snub. The 38 spl +P Speer data I have lists loads up to 1,065 fps from a 6" barrel S&W M14 so the 858 fps in a snub should easily be met or exceeded.

 

[Pointblank2U]

Gold Dots are nice, but expensive. I like Golden Sabers and buy them in bulk fairly cheap. Look at this snub test a couple of weeks back:

.38 Special +P Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

 

[pete950]

Gold Dots are nice, but expensive. I like Golden Sabers and buy them in bulk fairly cheap. Look at this snub test a couple of weeks back:

.38 Special +P Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

I've seen some of this guys other testing. He does a real nice job, he's shooting through 4 layers of denim and into sim test which is the same as gel. I think this is better than some shooting into water jugs or straight down into a 55 gallon of water. I'm impressed with this load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A few years ago I got some information from Speer and I did a lot of work on replicating their 135gr .38 Special +P and 135gr .357 Magnum loads. I tried to not only replicate the velocity but also tried to replicate the felt recoil of each load. I've found recoil is different from different ammo, not the amount of recoil but the type of recoil. I think I succeeded in replication both 135gr Speer loads.

Using a 135gr Speer bullet or a 140gr Hornady XTP bullet in Speer .38 Special +P brass and a CCI-500 pirmer:
.38 Special +P using 6.8gr AA#5
.357 Magnum using 8.8gr Power Pistol
Both are not the Max powder charges but both feel the same as the originals to me.

 

[kmrcstintn]

right now I have Federal Nyclad 125 gr non +p that is the primary load in my S&W 442; I have since added a Ruger SP101 in .357 mag and might get some Remington Golden Sabre 125 gr +p's as they seem more readily available in the older green/gold boxes & the new black/red HD boxes

 

[pete950]

Right now Sgammo.com has the Golden Sabers for under $14.00 a box!

 

[125JHP]

Thanks for that info Archangle - I've been wanting to put together a oem.twin and just got a box of 135 GDSB from Midway and I have plenty of AA5.

 

[hsmith9491]

I bought them when you could buy 50 round boxes.
Have 4 boxes left. They rip us off with the 20 round boxes.

 

[APS]

Yes, I agree. When I can find them at gunshows in the 50rnd boxes I buy all I can.