Speer ammo ALERT

[The Big D]

Whilst undergoing LEOSA quals yesterday, we had a brief range shutdown when a fellow shooter had a fail to fire...a possible squib.

Investigation revealed a Speer .40 caliber round had the primer inserted sideways in the brass. (This descripition per a range instructor who personally reloads.) The instructor said he had seen a similar defective round before, but that primer did not ignite.

He showed me the round upon request and explained the primer actually ignited but failed to ignite the powder charge. The round was thus intact.

No lot number(s) or other info was available except this was a factory manufactured round.

Further info will be in a LEOSA thread to be in the Concealed Carry section just a bit later this morning.

Be safe.

Note: If I am using the wrong terminology re: "ignited" and "ignite," my apologies.

 

[wyatt66]

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[jspick]

WOW, with all the billions of rounds loaded I guess that could happen once in a while.

JOhn

 

[JJEH]

Thank you Big D...

 

[APS]

Millions upon millions of properly loaded Speer rounds get fired every year but an alert needs to be raised?

This thread should be called "Don't be a moron and load an obviously defective round into your gun and attempt to fire it".

 

[Bomberman]

I'm a Munitions Inspector for the Air Force...one of our checkpoints when inspecting ammunition is to check for proper primer seating. In my 35 years of doing this job, I have found exactly one defective primer. My point? It can happen but it's very rare. This should have been caught when he was loading his magazines. Now if you get a box or two of the same lot # with improperly inserted primers, then it's time to raise an alert with the company. Until then, be vigilant when loading and you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[old&slow]

I'm a reloader and have reloaded and shot tens of thousands of rounds. And the small pistol / rifle primer is notorious for going in backwards, sideways, upside down, inside out, and every other way possible.
In case I miss one during the reloading process, and I have. I do a final check when I put them in the ammo box ( primer up ) before I go to a match / range.
Large pistol primers are much more forgiving and hardly ever flip. But I've learned to "Never Say Never". sounds like a good movie title.

 

[Wayne Dobbs]

For the past two years I've worked at a very large government contracted training operation. We consume tens of thousands of rounds per class training cycle. I've noted that factory ammo is really very good, but the geopolitical events since 9/11 have forced ammo producers to work at rates that were never imagined, likely since WWII. This has resulted in poorly seated primers, crushed case mouths, squib loads, dud rounds, etc.

Several weeks ago I was also at the Firearms Training Unit of one of the largest cities in the nation and was shown a collection of their issued duty rounds displaying numerous visual faults and they advised that they've been having dud and squib (there is a difference) DUTY rounds.

Ammo quality has slipped due to ammo quantity demands. Visually inspect every single round that your life rides on and in training ammo expect to find problems.

By the way, the brands involved in these two examples were Federal and Winchester.

Pay attention, folks!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When you open the box the ammo is facing primer up. How in the heck can anyone miss seeing a primer siting sideways in the case?

I highly doubt a lot number will do us any good because that is so rare there probably isn't another defective load in the lot.

The shooter however....

 

[David Sinko]

My department uses Speer for the handgun practice and duty round. I have not yet seen a bad round.

On the other hand, I have seen a Remington .223 Power Lokt with the primer installed upside down. During qualification I heard a Sgt. say "Hey, why does my primer look like the nuclear symbol?!" I thought he was joking and ignored him, but then he showed it to me and it had the primer installed upside down. Funny thing is, nobody else (including the staff) knew what it was. I bet most of our officers would've loaded it into a magazine after looking at it and expected it to fire out on the street.

I also have a Federal .40 S&W factory loaded cartridge with the bullet seated upside down. There's no way this would ever chamber in any handgun.

As expensive as factory loaded ammo is, you'd expect it to all be perfect.

Dave Sinko

 

[GregoryJ]

When you open the box the ammo is facing primer up.

Not with "bulk" ammo. Federal is on its side and WWB is just thrown in the box.

 

[WR Moore]

We really don't buy ammo by the ton, but it amounts to that. Over the years, we've seen primers in various stange positions, bullets seated backwards, rolled case mouths and other things. We've also had the occasional squib. I've also seen the odd wrong caliber round in boxes of pistol ammo.

However, when you consider the number of rounds we go through a year, the number of defective rounds isn't really measureable as a percentage without a whole lot of zeros after the decimal point and before any actual digit.

We've also come a long way, baby. Back in the early 1900's John Browning made field adjustable headspace a feature of his heavy machine guns because of lot to lot variation in ammo.

As some other folks have mentioned, the end user is expected to take a look at their ammo and make sure it's properly assembled before loading it. I personally buy factory ammo only for potential defensive applications and I check the primers before heading to the cash register.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Not with "bulk" ammo. Federal is on its side and WWB is just thrown in the box.

Even though LEO Agencies buy large lots of ammo they don't buy loose ammo. They all come in factory packaging so my statement stands, he should have seen the primer problem before he loaded the round.

 

[Hapworth]

Even though LEO Agencies buy large lots of ammo they don't buy loose ammo. They all come in factory packaging so my statement stands, he should have seen the primer problem before he loaded the round.

Agreed on all counts, but one possible explanation is that since this was during quals, fast reloads against the clock might explain the oversight.

It's of course an argument for checking the ammo before you're in the lane, but that's not always an option either if you're shooting department supplied stuff handed to you moments before the shooting starts.

 

[Stu Honea]

For the past two years I've worked at a very large government contracted training operation. We consume tens of thousands of rounds per class training cycle. I've noted that factory ammo is really very good, but the geopolitical events since 9/11 have forced ammo producers to work at rates that were never imagined, likely since WWII. This has resulted in poorly seated primers, crushed case mouths, squib loads, dud rounds, etc.

Several weeks ago I was also at the Firearms Training Unit of one of the largest cities in the nation and was shown a collection of their issued duty rounds displaying numerous visual faults and they advised that they've been having dud and squib (there is a difference) DUTY rounds.

Ammo quality has slipped due to ammo quantity demands. Visually inspect every single round that your life rides on and in training ammo expect to find problems.

By the way, the brands involved in these two examples were Federal and Winchester.

Pay attention, folks!

Good info and advice,Wayne.Thanks for those observations.