UltraCarry45
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What has happened to Speer? Are they part of Vista Outdoors?
Speer ammo
- Thread starter UltraCarry45
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Yes, they are.
ReloadforFun
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Vista divided its operations. I don't recall the name of the new entity that includes Speer and other ammunition "stuff" but different than Vista.
CCI, Speer, Federal, Alliant, etc. are under Vista’s “Kinetic Group.”
“Kinetic Group”?
Is that some sort of acronym to describe the withholding of products from the marketplace except in rare cases when customers have the privilege of being gouged at a 500-1000% markup over retail?
I'm thinking it was named Kinetic as in the newspeak term for war, "kinetic action". Unless I am mistaken, they are focused on government/military contract fulfillment, civilian production is very much a secondary outlet for production.
"Kinetic" as in explosive.
Ed
Ed
cd228
Member
Hang on to your shorts gents, Kinetic Group might be sold to CZ. The Feds may have cleared the sale.
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And the last post falls right in line with a post I made in reloading forum. I was in Wally World the other day and bought a 325 pack of 22s Federal....and in the reloading area they had 52 gr Speer 224 match bullets for reloading...$10.60 per 100.. I bought a couple boxes....and a jar of 4895...for too much money...but I bought it for a friend. after giving him a call...oh yeah he said.
Speer what?
Speer was my go to for bullets and ammo. Ammo just about went away except for some Gold Dots and I haven't seen Speer bullets in years. Since Federal, Hornady, Remington and several others make good defensive ammo I don't even think about them any more.
Speer was my go to for bullets and ammo. Ammo just about went away except for some Gold Dots and I haven't seen Speer bullets in years. Since Federal, Hornady, Remington and several others make good defensive ammo I don't even think about them any more.
Does anybody else remember when "Speer" was run by Vernon Speer, when "Hornady" was run by Joyce Hornady, and when Fred Huntington ran RCBS?
At the rate we're going all of our powder, primers, ammo, etc., will be coming from companies like Lucky Chen Star Conglomerate....
At the rate we're going all of our powder, primers, ammo, etc., will be coming from companies like Lucky Chen Star Conglomerate....
I think it would be good if CZ bought Kinetic Group. CZ ownership has certainly been good for Colt Firearms.
I agree that everything CZ touches is done right. I hope the agreement keeps manufacturing in the USA and that most remains here.
I sure miss Gold Dot ammo in short barrel 38 +p, 357 and 44 spl. It’s like Xmas and 4th of July combined when I find the occasional box of NOS on a shelf.
No!! The basic problem remains. (with all due respect!)
Vista Outdoors, Kinetic group, or whatever, own three of the four domestic primer manufacturers, those being CCI, Federal, and Remington. Only Winchester remains outside of their iron-fisted grip.
These manufacturers will never compete with one another, as can be seen in the locked uniform (and grossly inflated) prices of their products.
The CZ purchase will simply change who owns the monopoly!!
1) How can CCI, for example, afford to sell loaded .22 LR Standard velocity ammo, on a per round basis, for less than what they charge for primers??
I buy CCI .22 ammo for $3.99/50 rounds.
But, a sleeve of CCI primers (if you can find them!) is $8.99-10.99/100?
2) Here’s another comparison. I just checked “Ammoseek” for prices on CCI Blazer 9mm ammo. They show listings as low as 14.5 cents per round.
But, compare that to the prices being charged for the components used to load that same ammo. Each primer, at retail prices, costs about 10 cents each. Assuming a powder charge of, say, 7 grains at a retail cost of $50-65/lb means that each cartridge contains 5-6.5 cents worth of powder.
That already exceeds the cost of the loaded ammo, not even counting the cost of the FMJ bullets or the brass casing!!
I don’t see how the sale to CZ can be approved. If anything, there should be an anti-trust lawsuit to force the break-up of this near monopoly. Wasn’t there a congressman who recently echoed exactly this sentiment?
It’s a subtle difference, but this is another example our economy shifting from capitalism to corporatism.
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THIS...........Made me remember Speer's good ol 45 acp "fliyin ashtray" bullet......Loved by me and lots of others.
Latest news, as of this morning, June 27th, the sale is postponed as a competing offer from Montreal-based MNC Capital for more money, is being considered.
Also while CFIUS has approved the sale, there remains DOJ concerns, based on warnings from at least two US senators and law enforcement agencies, that the deal has potential anti-trust problems.
(Please consider writing to your US senators to express your concerns.)
Here is a brief quote:
“ But in recent weeks DOJ antitrust lawyers have been meeting with third parties, including law enforcement groups concerned that the deal will lock up the U.S. market for primer, the key ingredient in bullets, according to three people with direct knowledge of the matter. A letter from the National Association of Police Organizations sent last week to Attorney General Merrick Garland also says the DOJ is looking at the deal.”
Quote is from this source:
Just a moment...
Also while CFIUS has approved the sale, there remains DOJ concerns, based on warnings from at least two US senators and law enforcement agencies, that the deal has potential anti-trust problems.
(Please consider writing to your US senators to express your concerns.)
Here is a brief quote:
“ But in recent weeks DOJ antitrust lawyers have been meeting with third parties, including law enforcement groups concerned that the deal will lock up the U.S. market for primer, the key ingredient in bullets, according to three people with direct knowledge of the matter. A letter from the National Association of Police Organizations sent last week to Attorney General Merrick Garland also says the DOJ is looking at the deal.”
Quote is from this source:
Just a moment...
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cd228
Member
Fiocchi, a CZ Group brand, announced they were building a primer factory in Little Rock, AK back in 2022. Anyone know the status on that?
Correct me if I am wrong.
CZ is not buying the Kinetic Group. Kinetic Group is the ammunition half of Vista Outdoors. The company in the process of buying The Kinetic Group is CSG "Czechoslovak Group".They also own Fiocchi.
Attention Required! | Cloudflare
Companies | CSG
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DWalt
Member
I haven't heard or seen anything recent about the Fiocchi primer venture in Little Rock. It was reported that the piece of property purchased for the plant's construction was a swamp unsuited for use and the plans had to be revised. I can't understand how that sort of blunder could have happened. There is indeed another company now making and selling primers, also located in Arkansas, but very little information about them has been revealed. White River Energetics
There was to be another primer manufacturing startup near Texarkana but it was apparently a fraudulent scam and the company took bankruptcy before ever getting close to beginning production.
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Artists here? We need a graphic chart or something! All very confusing right now. I see the danger in one or two entities running everything in ammo in such a large nation. Cost to end user and government interference potential.
