msinabottle
Member
Hello!
New to this board, shooting since I was old enough to... Er... shoot. I shall presume upon your good will and attempt to justify my use of your archives by telling you of my newest purchase, a mismatched M1917 that I am calling 'the Surplus Special.'
First, while it's still up, you can have a look at the auction listing. That's:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=77180048
Mild gamble, but Jerry had a good record on E-Bay, and I had a good feeling about the pistol.
I, too, have noticed how they keep getting more and more expensive, and I have wanted an M1917 since I knew of their existence, although at first I wanted the Colt... Not sorry that I was convinced the Smith was the better gun, I've gotten quite fond of this once since it arrived Monday.
I'll also make a disclaimer--I'm going to speculate about the gun, and tell you some things I've learned, but I don't want to imply that the fellow who sold it to me acted in bad faith. I don't think he did in the slightest--and he sent the gun to me in a plastic case, which he didn't have to do, and didn't say he would do when he listed the gun. My feedback on him is not 'CYA.'
Jerry's photographs are pretty accurate, he even tried to show the finish damage on the front of the barrel, the shot just didn't turn out.
All right--so I knew about the mismatched numbers, and the bluing damage, and mechanically, the gun functioned beautiful. Barrel was gunky, I put Wipe Out in that with the idea that if it came out blue I'd unlimber the Outers Foul Out III and give that gun the electrolytic cleaning of its existence to get rid of the copper. I never got more lead out of a gun in my life than I did with the Foul Out, too.
Patch came out brownish red, that said 'Rust,' to me, although the back of the Wipe-Out can said 'Carbon.' Barrel looked a little misty after a few patches, but not bad at all, the rifling looked practically pristine--quite possibly because when they threw the gun together, whenever they did, they stuck an unused barrel on it. No damage to the pins or sags or gouges. No need for the Foul-Out.
I followed the Wipe-Out with a magic substance onto which a master gunsmith had clued me, that being... Rubbing compound! Got some pretty black patches with that, soaked theh bore again in Wipe Out, came out pretty clean, Kroil overnight--clean patches. Nothing too dire there. Also had Kroil sitting on the surface rust, only some very small patches of that.
Took Bronze Wool and more Kroil to those, couldn't find the fine grade at the local Ace, but the coarse stuff did a pretty good job of taking off the rust, although that was bad enough to have pitted, a bit. Also dripped Kroil over all the external screws and into the action, I planned on taking the old revolver apart and didn't want any frozen screws.
I've had lovely luck with Kroil--my father's old 24 in .44 Special had a very stiff action from old lubricant, I was planning on taking that to pieces until I dripped some Kroil into the action on general principles and everything freed up completely. At any rate, not a single screw gave me trouble.
I was quite worried about what I'd find under the grips. What I found was... Nothing. No pitting. No rust. All the parts looking brand new and in perfect working order. No serial number on the inside of the grips, so no chance for a 4th number, to go with the one on the barrel, the one on the butt and frame, and the matching pair (Jerry can be excused, they're very tiny) on the crane and cylinder.
The only surprise was the pin that dropped out as I pulled out the cylinder and crane--not mentioned in 'Firearms Dissassembly: Revolvers,' I was using the description of the 1905. Finally figured out it was the detent pin on the crane from the little indent in the frame and from my belated realization that what was in the hole was a spring, not a roll pin.
Under the side plate it was... Gorgeous. No gunk, no old oil, no dust, just shiny looking parts in perfect order.
I just don't know--Jerry said he bought the gun from his brother in the '60's. If his brother was an Army gunsmith, I could see him putting the gun together from old parts, although the bluing would argue against an arsenal rebuild in the '30's. I wasn't complaining, and nothing looked anything less than prime factory standard. Well, good. I quit taking the gun apart, no real need at that point.
With the cylinder and plate off the frame, and the grips pulled, I got to the real business of the evening, which involved scads of Q-tips, a heat gun, denatured alcohol, OOOO Steel Wool, and a shot glass full of Brownell's Oxpho Blue.
I had very good luck cleaning up and patching the blue on a mismatched Chilean Steyr 1911 I'd lucked into--an oddly similar case of a gun with a beat-up exterior and a perfect interior. I hadn't had quite as good luck with my Astra 400 or the Carcano, but the Steyr and the Smith have a very dark, nice blue in common besides the Great War.
A philosophical statement here: the only collector whose value of any of these pistols I care about is... ME! I don't like a gun that looks beat-up, I believe that bluing exists to protect a gun's metal, and to me touching up bluing is just a minor repair--not an effort to sell a gun for more money. I don't do any machine polishing, it would stick out like a sore thumb, like the bare metal does.
I like my pistols, which I shoot, looking their best, as close as I can make them without damaging their historical value to their original state. I shoot them to experience the past. I will also note that I have used many different cold-blue products, and the only one that's been worth the trouble has been the Oxpho Blue.
The drill is pretty simple--denatured alcohol to clean down to the bare metal, even though Brownell's says you don't need to. Then the heat gun on the target area, which is a trick I've learned on the Gunboards 'Win's Workbench' board. Then a Q-tip, the end of which will only be dunked the one time into the shotglass full of Oxpho Blue.
That goes onto the damaged area and turns black, down comes the old t-shirt to wipe off the excess, buffing with the steel wool, and repeat until the repaired area matches the surrounding blue--as closely as possible. That means... a LOT of repetitions. First the cylinder, then the handle frame, then the trigger guard, then upper frame, and finally the barrel. And the barrel. And the barrel.
Results... Good! I'll put up some 'After' pictures when I have a moment to take take 'em. I did experiment a little. I'm always experimenting. The cat avoided me. I tried what one fellow on Gunboards suggested, which was using steel wool to apply the Oxpho Blue. I didn't think it helped any, and it didn't have the fine control you get with the Q-tip.
I did, however, take a cue from THIS board, and tried a little Blue Magic metal polish on the areas I'd finished patching. Results? Good! Seemed to smooth everything down and feather the patched areas into the original blue.
Once I got the old gun back together (thought I'd hosed it when I overtightened the front side plate screw and the whole action and cylinder release froze up), I did a bit more touching up, filed down a damaged screw head, and covered the whole thing in Break Free, which is also what I dripped all over the internal mechanism. Hopefully, that'll coat things enough to prevent any additional rust/bluing action.
At any rate--the gun looks tremendously better, the bluing repairs aren't horribly obvious to the untrained eye, and I think the 'Surplus Special' will have its self-respect back when I take it to the range and see if it will hit the broadside of a barn.
I suspect it will. VERY smooth double action, although I only tried it once and the barrel and cylinders all look true.
I'll keep you all informed.
Best!
Rob
New to this board, shooting since I was old enough to... Er... shoot. I shall presume upon your good will and attempt to justify my use of your archives by telling you of my newest purchase, a mismatched M1917 that I am calling 'the Surplus Special.'
First, while it's still up, you can have a look at the auction listing. That's:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=77180048
Mild gamble, but Jerry had a good record on E-Bay, and I had a good feeling about the pistol.
I, too, have noticed how they keep getting more and more expensive, and I have wanted an M1917 since I knew of their existence, although at first I wanted the Colt... Not sorry that I was convinced the Smith was the better gun, I've gotten quite fond of this once since it arrived Monday.
I'll also make a disclaimer--I'm going to speculate about the gun, and tell you some things I've learned, but I don't want to imply that the fellow who sold it to me acted in bad faith. I don't think he did in the slightest--and he sent the gun to me in a plastic case, which he didn't have to do, and didn't say he would do when he listed the gun. My feedback on him is not 'CYA.'
Jerry's photographs are pretty accurate, he even tried to show the finish damage on the front of the barrel, the shot just didn't turn out.
All right--so I knew about the mismatched numbers, and the bluing damage, and mechanically, the gun functioned beautiful. Barrel was gunky, I put Wipe Out in that with the idea that if it came out blue I'd unlimber the Outers Foul Out III and give that gun the electrolytic cleaning of its existence to get rid of the copper. I never got more lead out of a gun in my life than I did with the Foul Out, too.
Patch came out brownish red, that said 'Rust,' to me, although the back of the Wipe-Out can said 'Carbon.' Barrel looked a little misty after a few patches, but not bad at all, the rifling looked practically pristine--quite possibly because when they threw the gun together, whenever they did, they stuck an unused barrel on it. No damage to the pins or sags or gouges. No need for the Foul-Out.
I followed the Wipe-Out with a magic substance onto which a master gunsmith had clued me, that being... Rubbing compound! Got some pretty black patches with that, soaked theh bore again in Wipe Out, came out pretty clean, Kroil overnight--clean patches. Nothing too dire there. Also had Kroil sitting on the surface rust, only some very small patches of that.
Took Bronze Wool and more Kroil to those, couldn't find the fine grade at the local Ace, but the coarse stuff did a pretty good job of taking off the rust, although that was bad enough to have pitted, a bit. Also dripped Kroil over all the external screws and into the action, I planned on taking the old revolver apart and didn't want any frozen screws.
I've had lovely luck with Kroil--my father's old 24 in .44 Special had a very stiff action from old lubricant, I was planning on taking that to pieces until I dripped some Kroil into the action on general principles and everything freed up completely. At any rate, not a single screw gave me trouble.
I was quite worried about what I'd find under the grips. What I found was... Nothing. No pitting. No rust. All the parts looking brand new and in perfect working order. No serial number on the inside of the grips, so no chance for a 4th number, to go with the one on the barrel, the one on the butt and frame, and the matching pair (Jerry can be excused, they're very tiny) on the crane and cylinder.
The only surprise was the pin that dropped out as I pulled out the cylinder and crane--not mentioned in 'Firearms Dissassembly: Revolvers,' I was using the description of the 1905. Finally figured out it was the detent pin on the crane from the little indent in the frame and from my belated realization that what was in the hole was a spring, not a roll pin.
Under the side plate it was... Gorgeous. No gunk, no old oil, no dust, just shiny looking parts in perfect order.
I just don't know--Jerry said he bought the gun from his brother in the '60's. If his brother was an Army gunsmith, I could see him putting the gun together from old parts, although the bluing would argue against an arsenal rebuild in the '30's. I wasn't complaining, and nothing looked anything less than prime factory standard. Well, good. I quit taking the gun apart, no real need at that point.
With the cylinder and plate off the frame, and the grips pulled, I got to the real business of the evening, which involved scads of Q-tips, a heat gun, denatured alcohol, OOOO Steel Wool, and a shot glass full of Brownell's Oxpho Blue.
I had very good luck cleaning up and patching the blue on a mismatched Chilean Steyr 1911 I'd lucked into--an oddly similar case of a gun with a beat-up exterior and a perfect interior. I hadn't had quite as good luck with my Astra 400 or the Carcano, but the Steyr and the Smith have a very dark, nice blue in common besides the Great War.
A philosophical statement here: the only collector whose value of any of these pistols I care about is... ME! I don't like a gun that looks beat-up, I believe that bluing exists to protect a gun's metal, and to me touching up bluing is just a minor repair--not an effort to sell a gun for more money. I don't do any machine polishing, it would stick out like a sore thumb, like the bare metal does.
I like my pistols, which I shoot, looking their best, as close as I can make them without damaging their historical value to their original state. I shoot them to experience the past. I will also note that I have used many different cold-blue products, and the only one that's been worth the trouble has been the Oxpho Blue.
The drill is pretty simple--denatured alcohol to clean down to the bare metal, even though Brownell's says you don't need to. Then the heat gun on the target area, which is a trick I've learned on the Gunboards 'Win's Workbench' board. Then a Q-tip, the end of which will only be dunked the one time into the shotglass full of Oxpho Blue.
That goes onto the damaged area and turns black, down comes the old t-shirt to wipe off the excess, buffing with the steel wool, and repeat until the repaired area matches the surrounding blue--as closely as possible. That means... a LOT of repetitions. First the cylinder, then the handle frame, then the trigger guard, then upper frame, and finally the barrel. And the barrel. And the barrel.
Results... Good! I'll put up some 'After' pictures when I have a moment to take take 'em. I did experiment a little. I'm always experimenting. The cat avoided me. I tried what one fellow on Gunboards suggested, which was using steel wool to apply the Oxpho Blue. I didn't think it helped any, and it didn't have the fine control you get with the Q-tip.
I did, however, take a cue from THIS board, and tried a little Blue Magic metal polish on the areas I'd finished patching. Results? Good! Seemed to smooth everything down and feather the patched areas into the original blue.
Once I got the old gun back together (thought I'd hosed it when I overtightened the front side plate screw and the whole action and cylinder release froze up), I did a bit more touching up, filed down a damaged screw head, and covered the whole thing in Break Free, which is also what I dripped all over the internal mechanism. Hopefully, that'll coat things enough to prevent any additional rust/bluing action.
At any rate--the gun looks tremendously better, the bluing repairs aren't horribly obvious to the untrained eye, and I think the 'Surplus Special' will have its self-respect back when I take it to the range and see if it will hit the broadside of a barn.
I suspect it will. VERY smooth double action, although I only tried it once and the barrel and cylinders all look true.
I'll keep you all informed.
Best!
Rob
