Spine chilling ...

[Kavinsky]

I'll admit, I'm just not an HK fan. Some love them, I guess it's the Jack Bauer factor. I think their weapons are overpriced (stamped slides, polymer frames, and o-rings for barrel bushings...they should be cheaper than glocks) and I've heard many accounts that their customer service is horrible. Their stance on the 2nd amendment may have something to do with that.

I'm not a fan either and I have heard of the HK USP having feeding problems in .40 but its just that the stories about the M16/M4 failures have made me nervious about the design in general and thus open to any idea that might fix that issue and save more of our troops lives in battle

although if its just the shorter M4 that's having this problem and not the M16 that changes things drastically and kind of explains the love/hate kind of relationship I've been hearing about the design for quite some time.

personally though with HK I do really like the MP5/G3 based designs as they damn near seem to be bulletproof, but none of the others as If I was going to spend damn near a grand on a pistol it would be all steel and a revolver, a damn good one too, IE pre dash - 3 pre 1980 smith revolver.

hell I could probably get two for the price of one USP or HK30, although the only one I like is the HK P30/HK45 and thats only because of the funky looking grips

 

[Joe Kent]

A very interesting thread to be sure. I bring this up to hear your thoughts. Prior to 1988 there were many designers that worked independently of the various factories, for that matter well over 75 or80 percent of the military full auto guns came out of private design, ie. everything designed by the master himself, John Browning. With the passage of the 1988 guncontrol Hughes Amendment banning any new private machineguns , there is virtually no way an inventor working alone in his shop in the garage or basement can come up with a new design and hope to sell it and recover or make money if the government does not buy it. I feel that these type of laws hinder our ability to field the best equipment for our young men and women who are on the line for us everyday. Just my 2cents.

 

[dcxplant]

The Direct Impingement (DI) design is simple and it works ... from the mouth of a SpecOps soldier who was determined to find out what this myth is all about ...
Is DI really unreliable?

Paris Is, 1985:

We were the last platoon to be issued the A1 in boot camp, the A2 was coming, the big deal being 3-round burst instead of full-auto.

These babies were OLD! During the full-auto training day, they let us fire as many mags of full-auto we cared to, and we cared a lot!! They got so hot, we couldn't hold them anymore. A spent case landed on my left arm, and it was so hot it left a scar that is still there!

Not one Marine on the firing line had a malfunction. Not one.

As always, YMMV

 

[5Wire]

In 1991
Heckler & Koch is sold to become a part of the large British defense group British Aerospace/Royal Ordnance.


I think the HK P7M8 is one of the finest pistols ever made. The M60 borrowed heavily from the German MG42. I hope whatever is chosen is what works best.

 

[Arthury]

In 1991
Heckler & Koch is sold to become a part of the large British defense group British Aerospace/Royal Ordnance.

[...]

True and I agree but some more M&A happened after that ... this is from their website:

In 1991

Heckler & Koch is sold to become a part of the large British defence group British Aerospace/Royal Ordnance.

In 2002

British Aerospace/Royal Ordnance restructured its business and sells Heckler & Koch to private investors.

In 2003

the owners restructure the business set-up for the group and separate the business into a commercial and a defence / law enforcement segment. The newly set-up Heckler & Koch Jagd und Sportwaffen GmbH (HKJS) started its operations on 1 July 2003.

 

[LVSteve]

Oh dear. The replacement of the M249 has NOTHING to do with DI vs piston operation. The 249 is a piston weapon, too. As far as I can see, the current M249s are probably getting worn out and with experience from Afghanistan, the M249s weight has brought the requirement for a lighter weapon. The M27 will be about 6lbs lighter than the M249 going by the H&K numbers for the M27 and the data for the SAW on Wikipedia. Supposedly the 416 platform is more resistant to dust and dirt than anything else except maybe an AK. I am not so sure the M249 has such a good rep.

I am a little surprised that the M27 seems to have only a 16" barrel. Comments on the accuracy of the weapon can be found here. Corps to Replace SAW With Automatic Rifle

As for the 5.56 vs 7.62 debate, is does not apply here as the requirement was for a light weapon. We all know from the M14 and the FAL that light weight, full auto fire and the 7.62 cartridge don't mix, and so do the Marines.

This weapon is as good as it is going to get until the armed forces of the Western world get their heads out of somewhere smelly and dump the 5.56 altogether for something in the 6.5-7mm range. We have 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC already in semis, but whether they make good military rounds for full auto fire I do not know. This argument could have been avoided a long time ago if the US ordnance board had accepted the British .280 caliber after WWII.

 

[three-five-seven]

spine chilling or heart warming?

So what let the Germans make the rifle and dont compain. They already make the big gun that sits on top of Abrams tank. No manufacturer should own the business. They have a plant in the USA. Government does not function or think like the average citizen. M4s that are worn out or dont work are as good as scrap metal. There were competitions for manufacturers to present better rifles. Incidentally Colt does not automatically get the business. Even if they drop the price of there product after we start shopping. If the gov was concerned they would open up government armories again. It is unfortunate that a US company didnt get the contract but historically many excellent firearms come from "over there" and have been produced in other countries under liscense. Remember Mausers or Argentine Colts 1911s? If the soldiers have a good reliable rifle who cares where it comes from. They have the plant here and Americans will be making them for other Americans. Except those that are given out to other countries. Do you know we make lots of 762x39 ammo for other countries? They are going to reissue Krag rifles I hear though...if that makes everyone happier. Maybe they will dig up John Browning too or consult General Hatcher.

 

[AZretired]

I think the HK P7M8 is one of the finest pistols ever made. The M60 borrowed heavily from the German MG42. I hope whatever is chosen is what works best.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget our beloved 1903 Springfield was also based on a German design, the M98 Mauser. We paid royalties to the Germans for years.

 

[TANKER]

Our 03 was based on a Mauser, but wasn't as good. Our M-60 was based on a MG-42 and wasn't as good. Maybe we should just use the HK the way it is and have the better gun.