'Splain something to me about Blackjack

[P&R Fan]

I had never gambled before, but a few months ago the Lovely Missus P&R Fan finally got me to go to the casino in our home town. She played slots, which to me looked incredibly boring, so I ambled over to the Blackjack tables. I had played Blackjack before with friends, just for fun, with no money involved. It looked like fun, so I got in. Won $75 that first time. Have played several times since, and am doing quite well.

I have listened to seasoned players, and there is a rule I don't quite understand it's importance. They say you should ALWAYS split Aces and 8s. I understand Aces, but why are 8s so good for splitting? I had a pair of 9s the other day, and the dealer had a bust card, a 5 or 6. I split the 9s and somebody at the table thought I was crazy. (Well I prolly am, but that's beside the point). I won the hand. Why would 8s have been better than 9s? I split when the dealer has a bust card, especially if it's a 5 or bigger. I usually do well.

So, anyway, why are 8s so important for splitting, more so than, say, 9s?
Thanks,
Jim

 

[gator68]

I'm no expert but here's my view.

A pair of eights is useless. You have 16. If you split them, you have two eights, and therefore two chances to pull 10s and get 18's.

Same with aces. But if you split, you have two chances to pull 21.

Splitting 9s... If the dealer has a weak card showing, sure split to give you more betting when you think he's going to bust. If he's looking strong though, just keep em, since you have a good hand.

 

[Lost Lake]

Blackjack is all I will ever play at a casino.

Aces and eights is the deadman's hand! That's probably where your buddy got the idea to split eights, from the 'Aces and Eights' idea.

But I would split eights of the dealer is showing a bust card. If the dealer is showing a 10 I'd take a card.

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but it will go in streaks.

And doesn't it seem that when you have a 20 the dealer can pull a 21 out of nowhere? He can have a 15 and get a 6. He'll have 13 and get an 8.

.

 

[P&R Fan]

If the dealer has a 10, we have to assume his down card is also a 10. I understand that. (We ALWAYS have to assume the down card is a 10). With two 8s, I'm gonna lose, so I would often hit. But why are 8s so much better than 9s or 10s to split? If the dealer has a bust card, I can double my bet by splitting. What is magical about 8s?
Jim

 

[RonJ]

Maybe because of Hickocks "dead mans hand".

 

[jgh4445]

I do believe O'l Bill was a playin' poker. Don't know what that would have to do with Black Jack. Don't have the answer to your question either, but don't think Hickock is the answer.

 

[diamonback68]

With two 8s, I'm gonna lose, so I would often hit. But why are 8s so much better than 9s or 10s to split? If the dealer has a bust card, I can double my bet by splitting. What is magical about 8s?
Jim

Because of the standard rule.
"If you are looking at a dealer 10 or high up card, you should hit on 16, stick on 17."
Two 8's equal 16, take a hit, two 9s equal 18, stick, two 10s are obvious.
If dealer has a bust card, splitting 8s which only equal 16 makes sense since you could draw two 10s for 18 and 18. Splitting 9s make no sense since you already have 18.

 

[P&R Fan]

Because of the standard rule.
"If you are looking at a dealer 10 or high up card, you should hit on 16, stick on 17."
Two 8's equal 16, take a hit, two 9s equal 18, stick, two 10s are obvious.
If dealer has a bust card, splitting 8s which only equal 16 makes sense since you could draw two 10s for 18 and 18. Splitting 9s make no sense since you already have 18.

But, Dick, with the dealer having a bust card, I can double my bet with a split with higher cards.
Jim

 

[RonJ]

I do believe O'l Bill was a playin' poker. Don't know what that would have to do with Black Jack. Don't have the answer to your question either, but don't think Hickock is the answer.

I'm aware that Hickock was playing poker, just figured aces and eights might be considered unlucky in any case.

 

[diamonback68]

But, Dick, with the dealer having a bust card, I can double my bet with a split with higher cards.
Jim

I just said that above.
"If dealer has a bust card, splitting 8s which only equal 16 makes sense since you could draw two 10s for 18 and 18."
And even if you don't draw high cards you could still win IF he busts.

 

[LVSteve]

But, Dick, with the dealer having a bust card, I can double my bet with a split with higher cards.
Jim

Yes you can, but you assuming that you will win on both hands AND the dealer will go bust on his/her draw. That is called GAMBLING. The trick to playing Blackjack is not so much to win, but to lose the minimum amount of money in the most amount of time and have some fun. You don't think that they can keep the paint nice, the lights and A/C running 24/7 and the drinks coming in these massive buildings in Vegas by letting you win?

I went out last week with my SIL and her husband. I played on a poker machine for a good 30 minutes for $2. It was 25c (five coins) per bet on a nickel machine. I had my fun and the casino got the electricity for that machine covered for a while.

 

[P&R Fan]

We went to a few casinos we hadn't been to this weekend. I was surprised in all of them there were only a few tables with the Plus Three option. For those who don't know about that, it's a side bet. If you bet it, and your two cards and the card the dealer has showing are 3 of a kind, a straight or a flush, (the most common one) you get paid 9 to 1 on your bet, so on my $5 bet it paid off $45. I hit it several times and did pretty good. It is quite popular with the players, and I'm surprised many casinos don't offer it on every table. They do in the one in our home town. I've been told the odds of hitting it are once in every 9 hands.
Jim

 

[feralmerril]

Two 9`s = 18. Usualy a pretty fair hand. Two 8`s = 16, the very worst two card total in the deck. The rest of what the guys told you are good answers so I wont say the same thing twice. Its more about betting higher as you win and betting low when you are just bobbing along.
Here is roughly how I play. I always start out betting two chips. (Whether they are only a dollar, five, ten or even 25 dollar chips.
If I win, I now have 4 chips. I rake in one of them and add the other chip to the bet. The next hand you have 3 chips out. If I lose I go back to my original two chips. If its a draw you just leave your last bet etc.
Streaks do show over time. When you are on a loosing streak you are betting only your minimum bet. If you are on a winning streak you catch fire fast and are betting high.
Now I do vary that method some as time go`s on. If I see that there is a lot of 10s comeing out I may drop back my bet even if I have been winning. 10`s favor the player when the decks are "10 rich". Lower cards in the decks favor the dealer in a "low card`s" rich deck. To do the above style betting and playing you should be playing at a table where the dealer is dealing from a 5 deck shoe.
You play somewhat different if a dealer is dealing out of his hand a one or two deck game. The thing is in one or a two deck game your counting cards do you no good as the dealer is constantly re shuffeling in the deck unless its just you at the table and usualy the tables are full with maybe high as six people. In that case he has to shuffel every hand or at the most two. In these bad times the casinos like full tables and if there is only one or two people at a table the pit boss will shut down whatever tables they need to, to keep fuller tables and send the excess dealers home and save on overhead.
There are books on how to count cards and IT DOES work if you know how. However it seldom does you good for the reasons I just gave. You will be spotted by good pit boss`s but it really does you no good due to them keeping the tables full and haveing to shuffel often. That type playing you bet high when the deck is 10 rich and low when the deck is low card rich. You only count certain card values, mainly 5`s that repersent the low cards. For me it takes the fun out of playing as you are highly concentrating hard etc.
I was a gambler for many years. I made good money by litteraly living on the job for maybe four to six weeks at a time without a day off and then once or every two months I would take a three day gambling trip and blow it. I now am retired and dont have the job with all the overtime I could work. I have throtteled back to going gambling only about two or three times a year and my limit that I take is about two hundred to when I was working it was 800 to a thousand a trip, and that was like 20 to thirty years ago.
Most the time I never had to buy my meals or rooms as I was a regular at certain casinos and would have them "track" me. You do that by getting a card and giving the dealer when you buy in. Most casinos will have you insert the card in a slot machine while you play and it gives you comp points for rooms and eats. At a BJ or **** table I buy in with a hundred dollars. They wont count you if you just walk up with 20 or 40 dollars. Even now I can go to mesquite (95 miles) and most always have enough points to eat free.
Playing like I laid out above, it was rare for me to not get ahead maybe 800 to a thousand somewhere once a trip at some point. However many times I didnt stop and lost it back along with my allowance for the trip. I have won as high as $4,000s on starting with the $100. Now I really would hate to see what I lost in those 40 years too. I know I would hate to pay for those rooms and eats. It probley would wipe out my ira`s. I had fun those years but I cant do it now on my retirement.

 

[P&R Fan]

Merril, these are all 6 deck shoes, so counting cards is not an option.
I bet the minimum, $5, on about 99% of my hands, even when I'm on a hot streak. Every once in a while I'll bet $10, but not too often. I'm pretty careful, and have only lost a few times.

If the dealer has a bust card, especially a 6, I feel I'm almost assured of a win. This is why I split almost anything at that time. I love it when that's what he has and I have 10 or 11 in my hand, then I double down.

I had something happen yesterday that I had not experienced before. Don't remember what the dealer had, but I had a 6 and 7 of Clubs. I hit and got an 8 of Clubs, so I had 21. I won the hand, and the dealer gave me twice what I should have won. When I asked why they said if I get 6,7 and 8 of the same suit, in any order, you win twice your bet. Never knew that. Is that SOP, or is it only in some casinos?
Jim

 

[feralmerril]

Many casinos have quirky rules that usualy apply to just that casino. Personaly I wont split 10 value hands. You have a almost sure winner with a 20 and far too often a dealer can pull a 21 and hurt you double or match your 20. If you play BJ a lot you will see it all.

 

[feralmerril]

P&R Fan, Go to this site. It is excellent to teach you the basic rules and plays. It will make you a excellent site to learn the ins and outs and whys you do what. Its free and fun!
Hit or Stand - Blackjack Game and Trainer

 

[P&R Fan]

P&R Fan, Go to this site. It is excellent to teach you the basic rules and plays. It will make you a excellent site to learn the ins and outs and whys you do what. Its free and fun!
Hit or Stand - Blackjack Game and Trainer

Cool, thanks a lot. I played and got an 87%.
Jim

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Split 9's if the dealer gas a 2-6 or 8-9 showing, stand if dealer shows a 7 or face/10 showing. Most people know the general rule but will stand with the dealer showing a 8 or 9 which is incorrect. With the 9 your 18 is beat if the dealer has a 10 so splitting gives you the chance of hitting 19 or better. against the 8, split and odds are you will either push or win them both.
ALWAYS split 8's even against 9 or 10 since the models indicate in the long run you will loose less than by hitting only. NEVER split 4's 5's 0r 10's. split 2's when the dealer shows a 3,4,5 or 6. hit them the rest on the time. Split 3's when the dealer shows a 3,4,5 or 6. 7's-split when the dealer shows a 2,3,4,5,6 or 7. Hit them on anything else. These suggestions are pretty standard and if you know the strategy and are good at counting you can do pretty well in a single deck-or even a double deck game. Most amateurs can handle this with a little practice. You need to be a pro trying to keep count with the 6 or 8 deck games.
Guess I really shouldn't know this kinda stuff

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Split 9's if the dealer gas a 2-6 or 8-9 showing, stand if dealer shows a 7 or face/10 showing. Most people know the general rule but will stand with the dealer showing a 8 or 9 which is incorrect. With the 9 your 18 is beat if the dealer has a 10 so splitting gives you the chance of hitting 19 or better. against the 8, split and odds are you will either push or win them both.
ALWAYS split 8's even against 9 or 10 since the models indicate in the long run you will loose less than by hitting only. NEVER split 4's 5's 0r 10's. split 2's when the dealer shows a 3,4,5 or 6. hit them the rest on the time. Split 3's when the dealer shows a 3,4,5 or 6. 7's-split when the dealer shows a 2,3,4,5,6 or 7. Hit them on anything else. These suggestions are pretty standard and if you know the strategy and are good at counting you can do pretty well in a single deck-or even a double deck game. Most amateurs can handle this with a little practice. You need to be a pro trying to keep count with the 6 or 8 deck games.
Guess I really shouldn't know this kinda stuff

Oh and always split aces.
Next we will go into the double down hands.

 

[P&R Fan]

If the dealer has an 8, 9 or 10 I would not split 8s. I'm likely to get a 10, so I would have to hit again on 18, which I never do. I would split 8s on 7 or lower.
I just don't understand why the 8 seems to be so magical to split on. Seems to me it depends on what the dealer has.
I see people split 2s a lot against 10s. If you get a 10, you have to hit again, and will very likely, in a 6 card deck, get another 10. In that case I just hit. It usually works.
I'm certainly not an expert yet, but I'm getting pretty good. Since August 19th I'm up $630. That may not seem like much, but keep in mind I only bet a $5 chip about 99% of the time. I play my gut a lot, and it usually pays off. Every once in a while I decide to sit a hand. Several times when I do that I get a Natural on the next hand. The other interesting thing when I do that is more often than not one of the other players at the table will hit a Plus Three on that hand. I tell 'em they owe me a pie.
This is getting really fun. Missus Fan loves the slots and I'm having a blast with Blackjack. The Plus Threes make it way more fun.

Just hope the IRS isn't monitoring the Forum.
Jim

 

[P&R Fan]

Oh and always split aces.
Next we will go into the double down hands.

I always split Aces, Caj. The other day I did and got FOUR Aces in a row, so I split four ways against a bust card.
Won big on that one.

I love to double down. I never double on my 11 if the dealer has a 9 or a 10. Other players do, but I don't have the guts. If he (or she, can't be a misogynist here) has 2-7 I will double down on my 8, 9, 10 or 11. Usually works for me, although some more experienced players think I'm crazy.
I am, but that's a story for another day.
Jim

 

[kpap]

well I'm a pit boss, Cajun is really close you split 4's against a5 and 6, if they allow double downs after splitting. The one misconception is 6 deck shoe, it's a card counter paradice. Here is why with a six deck shoe when the count is good you get more hands, and by playing perfect basic stradgy the house has .5% advantage that's it. so when the count is bad or neutral with a minium bet your only give up .5%. with single deck and double deck by the time the count is good the dealer shuffles, that's why pro counters love 6 and 8 deck shoes. Splitting 8's against 9 and face will give you a slight advantage not much over a course of thousands of hands. If every player played perfect stradegy you would see less tables on the floor. but deviating from basic stradegy the house gains upto a 50% advantage on certain hands and I watch it all night. I could go on but learn basic stradgey and you will win more. Side note if you tip the dealers your comps will go up a lot and if your a card counter and tip we usually let the counter play longer if the counter is a stiff with the staff they will be gone in less than 30 minutes. Most floor staff gets tipped out from the dealers, that is where tipping gets involved, also you may not qualify for a comp but the power of the pen goes a long way if u take care of the staff. Here is a great site wizardofodds.com it will give you all of the odds of every bet and the odds of every scenario of hands, good luck and have fun.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Interesting on the split 4's against 5 or 6's. I forget the book I read tears ago but the guy has a jewish last name and his strategy and card counting tips were simple to learn and made me some money. SInce the casino opened the poker room, I've not played the table games, preferring to make the money at the poker tables. After all, the casino was built off of blackjack tables and the slot machines
PS. When I roll craps , I like to bet wrong. It's fun screaming for a 7 with a full table

 

[feralmerril]

The guys name was goodman. First name might have been harry?

 

[P&R Fan]

So my question is this:
You have 8s, the dealer has a 10. Do you split the 8s?
I don't, I hit. Am I wrong?
Jim

 

[diamonback68]

So my question is this:
You have 8s, the dealer has a 10. Do you split the 8s?
I don't, I hit. Am I wrong?
Jim

88s are like AAs, they recommend you ALWAYS split no matter what the dealer has.

 

[feralmerril]

P&R fan, on that one I dont go entirely by the book. I belive the book will tell you to split. If possible I like sitting in the last spot next to the dealer. If I have just seen maybe 3 tens or so in the last 4 or 5 cards dealt it does affect my decision and I may break away from the odds book. I try to stay aware of 10s dealt out in the last few cards dealt out just before me, so I dont really follow the book strickly. In other words I might have a breaking hand 17 or 18 and if the dealer has a 10 showing and there has been say 3 10s dealt just now and its my play, I might well hit that 17 or 18! Most of the time I would hit the 16 and not split the 8`s. Might BE or win, but wont lose double. By the way I googeled "Goodman", it wasnt harry, it was mike. Here is a lead to that book, its a good one. How to win: Dice, roulette, poker, blackjack (21), horse racing, betting systems, money management, international gambling / by Mike Goodman (An original Holloway House edition): Mike Goodman: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ki%2B2651KL.@@AMEPARAM@@51Ki%2B2651KL
BJ is my favorite cassino game. If I was single I would probley die at the table wearing a barrel! Now that I have remarried I have backed way off. Know this if you are new. It`s addictive! Good luck

 

[REM 3200]

That is called GAMBLING. You don't think that they can keep the paint nice, the lights and A/C running 24/7 and the drinks coming in these massive buildings in Vegas by letting you win?

This is the correct answer. By the way, all of us poor tax payers that live in a casino town say thank you for your money.

 

[feralmerril]

The casinos havent been doing all that well for the last 6 years or so. I see they razzed down the nevada landing a couple years ago. It was my favorite. I was there when they built and opened it in the late 70s or so. Now its vacant dessert. They built a new casino in mesquie a couple years ago. It only stayed open a week or so! Now it just sits! The casino owner --Black built a mansion a few miles up the road from me at parawan utah. It looks done but inside never was finished and has been sitting vacant now for 4 or 5 years. Probley one of the most exspendsive house`s in southern utah and it looks eerie vacant.
They also closed up the "Oasis" in mesquite a number of years ago.
One reason I like BJ, unless they use a cheating dealer, the odds are the same wherever you go. I doubt they would cheat a person and take the risk of being shut down. However when things get tight I do belive they take a pipe wrench and tighten up the slots!
Speaking of slots, the deuces wild games are poison to me. I know the odds are bad but I always have to try them.
You see all of lifes wrinkles when you hang around gambling. I think I went a lot just to see the different behaviors of people and see life storys. From those standpoints I cant think of any other type places you see so much. I have won and lost uncountable money but overall I suppose I have lost so much I wouldnt want to really know. I think I have won $1,190 on royal flushs and 7 numbers on keno machines close to a 100 times through the years. ($1,200s and you were reported for tax purpose`s) so most machines have popular options to just miss that rule. Guns, Gambling, Girls are all costly and had I refrained I might be rich. I wouldnt have had the life I have led either.

 

[perrazi]

p&r- if you are going to play this game, get some books on the subject and read. playing with your gut will cost you in the end. it's all a matter of ratios. learn to count cards and you will have at least an even play against the house. with perfect counting of course.