Spring Kits - Tale of Two 642s

[Edmo]

I've got two different 642-1 "post lock" nubbies and have put spring kits in both of them. I used the Wilson kit in the first one and because the Wilson kit was back ordered when the time came, I put a Wolff kit in the second one with much different results.

The 642 with the Wilson kit has been flawless, firing everything I've run through it. This includes my handloads with CCI primers. However, the gun with the Wolff kit was less than stellar. It fired most of the WWB ammo I ran through it, but the Remington range ammo produced a light primer strike with almost every cylinder full.

The Remington ammo had silver primers... CCI?? As a side note, I also fired some Hornady Critical Defense +P rounds. Some were older with silver primers and the newer Critical Defense has gold primers. The Wolff spring gun had hiccups with the silver primers, but not the newer gold ones.

I guess I will put the stock hammer spring back in and run the test again.

For those who lighten their springs always verify function before trusting it as a self defense firearm. I'm sure Wolff spring kits are good, but every gun will react differently to the change.

Edmo

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I've shot & carried a 642 since Sept. 1996. I never saw the need to mess with the internals. It goes BANG with everything I've put in it. Age has smoothed it up some. Its my cwp gun most of the time.

 

[Ogie]

I just put the Apex kit in today. Trigger pull is much improved and not too light, just a little lighter and smoother. I still have to go out and shoot her though and check for function. My factory springs always allowed the 642 to go bang, just not accurately due to the awful trigger pull. I expect a change for the better.

 

[nawilson]

Edmo, out of curiosity, how did the two two spring sets compare for trigger feel?

ETA- maybe you should do an experiment and see if you get the same results if you switch the spring sets between the guns.

 

[Edmo]

Edmo, out of curiosity, how did the two two spring sets compare for trigger feel?

ETA- maybe you should do an experiment and see if you get the same results if you switch the spring sets between the guns.

The triggers both felt about the same to me. However, the Wolff hammer spring seemed a bit weaker as I installed it than I remembered the Wilson. That could be the root of my light primer strikes...

I thought about swapping springs around, but I don't want to take the good one and make it "bad".

Edmo

 

[Edmo]

Spring Kits - Tale of two 642s --- UPDATE...

I put the stock springs back in and I'm still getting misfires.

Today it was averaging 4-5 misfires in 50 rounds. I put 90-100 rounds of various brands through it. This included both standard pressure and +P rounds. I quit when my hand couldn't take any more!

Emailed S&W and will get it back to them when I get the label.

Edmo

 

[skrazo]

I installed the Apex spring kit in my 642. Shoot almost exclusively reloads (Hornady XTP for carry). No malfunctions in about 2000 rounds. Much lighter/smoother trigger action. Measures between 8.5 and 9.0 pounds.

 

[TucsonMTB]

I put the stock springs back in and I'm still getting misfires.

Today it was averaging 4-5 misfires in 50 rounds. I put 90-100 rounds of various brands through it. This included both standard pressure and +P rounds. I quit when my hand couldn't take any more!

Emailed S&W and will get it back to them when I get the label.

Edmo

Sounds like you are on the road to success.

However, before it goes back, if you still have enough patience, check to ensure there is nothing gumming up the channel the firing pin rides in. I'm not the brightest bulb on the porch. So, I managed to get some lubricant in mine. It really gummed up the works to the point that eventually the little spring that retracts the firing pin got jammed and distorted.

After several false starts, I finally figured it out, cleaned the channel and firing pin, and replaced the damaged spring. Like magic, the 642-1 is now 100% reliable, even with hard primers and while using lighter springs for a nice light trigger.

Yeah, you are probably much brighter and more experienced than I am. That would not be hard. If so, my apologies for the extra noise.

 

[snubbiefan]

I have never had any issues with Wolff springs, except you can get them faster from Midway than you can by directly ordering them from Wolff. Not advertising for Wolff....or anybody else. The gun itself can have issues that no reduced effort kit will function in. No matter how hard somebody tries, it has to be very difficult to turn out two guns that are "exactly" perfect. What works in one gun may not work in another.

Without swapping the springs in both guns, you will never know if it's the springs or the gun. Just for kicks....I can go down to ACE Hardware and buy springs for around 60-cents and custom-cut them to work in any revolver that employs the use of a coil spring. I've done it before, but can't speak for the longevity of the springs....never left them in that long.

 

[wolverine]

Morning Edmo;

I have had some issues with Wolff springs lately. Last kit I got the springs seemed to be in the wrong packages as the 15# measured lighter than the 13# on my home made spring tester.

So far the springs I received form Wilson have been more consistent & the 13# Wilson measures lower than the 13# from Wolff.

At least Wilson customer support will help you sort them out, can't say that for Wolff customer support.

 

[snubbiefan]

That is good to know. Wolff has every opportunity (like any manufacturer) of losing a grip on quality-control. I have several older Wolff spring kits...maybe all mine are okay.

 

[HiCap]

Apex in my 442 lockless; came with a firing pin that was a tad longer. Not one misfire in about 200 handloads.

HiCap

 

[Riverbear]

I put some Wilson springs in a Ruger SP101 while waiting for some Wolf's to be delivered. They worked flawlessly.

When the Wolf's arrived I said to myself, "If it ain't broke don't fix it" and threw the Wolf's in the parts cabinet and figured I'll use them someday for something. Wolf makes a great product and I found out that Wilson does too.

 

[Swengen]

Recently installed some Wilson springs in my 642-1. Lightly honed the internals. Very, very smooth. Just need to get to the range once the weather warms up a bit.

 

[DR DICK]

Every time I do a j frame, I put a CyL & Slide extra length firing pin Brownells# 206-000-010AK .It seems to the job for me,that extra .015 lets you go lighter on some springs.Put a snap cap in ,slide a folded piece of printer paper behind it ,dry fire it .Then put the extended F P in and look at the difference. I don't know but it works for me,file the sharp edges of the hammer strut and smooth them out .Then you can fire primed empty brass and lighten up the spring until it doesn't fire the primer.Replace the spring with 2lb stronger and thats the end of the show! DrDick

 

[Kilibreaux]

A gun meant for COMBAT should NEVER be modified for "sport."
Unless of course you don't intend to carry the modified gun as your primary in a social altercation.

When standing at the range popping off rounds, a stiff trigger seems to need modification....but during the heat of a social encounter that "heavy" trigger pull won't even be noticed, nor make ONE WHIT'S DIFFERENCE in whether you live or die.

I don't and never will run special springs in ANY handgun carried for self defense or hunting DANGEROUS animals...if anything I'd be installing heavier springs because I want that primer to DETONATE when MY life is in the balance.

On the other hand, since I NEVER carry a firearm anywhere but the range...custom springs seem interesting!

 

[Screwball]

I'll echo the Apex kit...

Put in my 642, and really works well. Nicer trigger pull, but not that much lighted. Definitely recommend them. Have them in my M&Ps, as well. Only other gun I have a kit in is my Ruger 10/22. I do have small upgrades in my Berettas (D-springs) and Glock (connector).

If you put the stock springs back in and still getting misfires, I'd recheck everything. Something might be misplaced.

 

[G-ManBart]

Morning Edmo;

I have had some issues with Wolff springs lately. Last kit I got the springs seemed to be in the wrong packages as the 15# measured lighter than the 13# on my home made spring tester.

So far the springs I received form Wilson have been more consistent & the 13# Wilson measures lower than the 13# from Wolff.

At least Wilson customer support will help you sort them out, can't say that for Wolff customer support.

These sorts of problems come because of the way Wolff (and ISMI) actually make, and rate, springs. They take X gauge wire, of Y material, and heat treat it according to the Z profile, and that becomes a certain weight spring...that's it. They don't test the springs after they're heat treated, or anything like that. I've tested a lot of springs with my homemade spring tester, and they're all over the place when new. What's worse, they frequently change significantly after some use, and that change is as varied as the original starting weights.

For recoil springs in autos, and pretty much any spring on an AR, the one exception I'm aware of is Springco brand springs (not the recoil reducer). You can take several out of the tube, and they will test very, very close to identically, and seem to be consistent in how they take a set.

I have no affiliation with them, but if you're interested, their website has sections on regular and tactical springs (it's worth checking both areas as they cover different applications).

Now, if they would only make springs for revolvers!

 

[n2cycles]

Apex spring kit

My early production J frame 360sc had a horrible double action trigger. I wanted to bob the hammer for pocket carry but that reduced the mass of the hammer so I worried about reducing the spring tension. First I bobbed the hammer still functioned fine. Then I saw where cutting 3 coils from the spring would reduce the pull and it did help a lot. I decided to get the Apex kit for $22 and install it. Wow what a difference that made. Unfortunately, I started getting misfires. I decided to leave the Apex trigger spring in and put the original cut spring back in. That gave me the perfect balance of reliability and safety with a very smooth and easy to pull trigger in double action. 300 hand loads and not one misfire