Squib load

[PeterJ]

I have been shooting for about 68 years, since I was about 10 years old, and have shot tens of thousands of rounds of strictly factory ammo. In that time I have never had a squib round. Yesterday I had TWO of them. I have heard of them happening and read of them but when it actually happened, there was no doubt that something was wrong. I was shooting my 6" 686 and after 2 normal rounds, a pop, and no recoil. Unloaded the gun and sure enough, bullet stuck halfway down the barrel. Ok, so I got my 4" 686 out and after 1 round, the same thing happened. What's the chances of that happening ? I was shooting Armscore ammo that I have been shooting for years with no issues. I have about 350 more rounds of the stuff and I am pretty sure which box the bad rounds came out of. A question I have is, can rounds be weighed to determine a powder difference ? I hate to dispose of all that ammo if there is a way to separate the good from the bad. Oh, I got one of the rounds out of the 4" but it was REALLY stuck in there and strangely it was about 3/4 of an inch long and about 25 caliber when it finally fell out. There is a lot of lead in the barrel which I hope my LGS can get out and get the round out of my 6". Bad day at the range,,, sigh.

 

[gwpercle]

Quality Control has gone done the tubes while price has skyrocketed ...
New Normal I guess .
Started reloading in 1967 and didn't see defective primers until recently ... after 1995 is recently to me .
My new rules when shooting ... You must Listen for the report and look for the bullet hole ... when in doubt ... look down the barrel and carry a range rod !

I'm sorry you had a bad day but very glad it wasn't worse ... stuck bullets can get problematic fast !
Good Catch !
Gary

 

[Dave Lively]

Wow, sorry to hear that. If you purchased the ammo recently I would try contacting Armscore and see if they will replace it. If they made a bad batch of ammo I doubt you are the only one having problems with it. The only squibs I have personally seen were with reloads, really bad luck to have that happen with factory ammo.

What type of bullet was in the ammo and how did you drive it out of your six inch 686?

I have a friend that recently had a couple of soft lead bullets get stuck in his 686 that he drove out with a cleaning rod. The rod was narrow enough that it expanded the bullet and made it hard to drive out. Kind of like driving a nail into an axe handle if the head is loose. In retrospect a wooden dowel just a little smaller than the bore would probably have worked better. If it left a lot of leading it sounds like the ammo you were shooting had soft lead bullets.

In my friend's case he was shooting some very mild reloads he made several years ago. He has shot a lot of them in the past with no problems but had two of the get stuck in the bore the last time he used them.

 

[RobzGuns]

That IS a bad day. Luckily, you were able to immediately feel the difference and assessed the situation.

If you still have the actual box, Contact Armscore (call/email) and give them the batch number, as there could be more out there from that batch, which they may want to recall.

If you have any more left, they may send you a return label for you to send them back for examination.
Nice catch indeed!

 

[CH4]

Howdy, Peter J
Thankfully, you had the wherewithal to recognize the problem and not fire another round behind the squib. Unfortunately, despite safety controls, we (Armscor) and all other ammo manufacturers, reloaders, occasionally let one or two slip past the goalie. That’s why most owners manuals cover this.

Please go to: [email protected] and file a claim and we’ll replace your ammo, and reimburse up to $75 for the professional removal of each squib. Please include that you were referred by “Dr. Lou”.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions at [email protected]

Respectfully

Lou

 

[PeterJ]

Thank you Lou,,, I will give that a try. As far as what type of bullet was in there,,, a lead one I suppose with a beautiful gold coating. I tried a wooden dowel at first but it wouldn't budge it so I grabbed a 6" 1/4" socket extension, and ground the sharp edges off the end and eventually broke it loose. As I said there is a lot of lead still stuck to the barrel and I hope it didn't do any damage.

 

[chief38]

I've had one squib with factory ammo as well as a a dozen or so complete failures to go bang. These were all with Remington brand ammo. This was many years ago before the Federal Cartridge Co's parent company purchased Remington ammunition recently. I HOPE they have vastly improved their QC on the Remington brand!

Winchester has been much better than the old Remington, but I have had some issues with that as well. Federal, Speer & American Eagle has all been flawless over the years and is my go to brand. I have had a few isolated FTF with CCI 22 rimfire recently, but that is just the nature of rim fire ammo.

 

[ReloadforFun]

It's not feasible to try to find differences in the powder weigh by weighing the rounds. Note to lot number of the box the rounds came from and segregate them from your other ammunition.

As stated above, contact the manufacturer. It is likely they will ask for the ammo back and replace it.

 

[Bobbysixkiller]

I had a 45 cold round of Winchester origin several years back that wouldn’t chamber. Good thing too. I put it in my bullet puller and lo and behold it had a second bullet. I’ve reloaded probably 70 percent of all my ammo since. Scary stuff. Imagine if it had been 44 mag and chambered. I’d contact the manufacturer. They will probably make good on it.

 

[mikerjf]

First time I’ve heard of a second bullet, wow! So there’s another benefit of hand-loading, hard to let one of those go by.

 

[glenwolde]

I've seen/had them but not two in a row. I suppose if they screwed up one they could screw up twice.

I'm not clear on what the specifications are on the ammo in question and you description is a bit confusing to me. It almost sounds like, from your description, that you might have suffered a "core separation" where the jacket is left in the barrel but the lead exits. Not that it matters much I guess.

 

[Vtgw938]

OP:

Yes you can weigh the rounds and likely be able to determine if there is another one without powder. A digital scale works well. But I would just shoot the ammo.

Since my days of PPC shooting, I always try to have a wooden dowel in my shooting box. I put it down the barrel and hit the dowel on the end against a solid surface. Never had one not come out and never had one that looked anything like what you describe.

Added: I've only had it happen with lead bullets as I can recall, jacketed ones might be a bear.

 

[PeterJ]

As I said, the bullet was extremely hard to get out of the barrel and did not look anything like a bullet when it finally came out. There must be jacketing still in the barrel as there is a ring in there that no solvent that I have will even touch it. I just hope the LGS can get it cleaned up and the squib out of the other barrel without doing any damage. My 686-4 has been with me since around 95 and would hate to lose it over a squib load.

Armscore 158 Gr. FMJ

 

[RobzGuns]

Kudos to Armscor for stepping up and making this good.
It's good to see manufacturers monitoring the Forums for feedback.

 

[CH4]

As I said, the bullet was extremely hard to get out of the barrel and did not look anything like a bullet when it finally came out. There must be jacketing still in the barrel as there is a ring in there that no solvent that I have will even touch it. I just hope the LGS can get it cleaned up and the squib out of the other barrel without doing any damage. My 686-4 has been with me since around 95 and would hate to lose it over a squib load.

Armscore 158 Gr. FMJ

Good morning
It appears the bass jacket is still in the barrel. We can provide a shipping label to bring your gun in and have our gunsmiths remove it.

Lou

 

[glenwolde]

As I said, the bullet was extremely hard to get out of the barrel and did not look anything like a bullet when it finally came out. There must be jacketing still in the barrel as there is a ring in there that no solvent that I have will even touch it. I just hope the LGS can get it cleaned up and the squib out of the other barrel without doing any damage. My 686-4 has been with me since around 95 and would hate to lose it over a squib load.

Armscore 158 Gr. FMJ

You may very well have a jacket left in the barrel. Good luck to you getting it resolved.

 

[ReloadforFun]

You should not try to sort any without powder by weighing. The variances of the bullet and case can cause a weight variation that can be as much as the powder charge.

As an example I weighed 20 cartridges. They were reloads as that is what I had at hand.

The average weight of the 20 rounds was 192.7 grains.
The standard deviation was 1.2 grains.
Maximum weight was 194.9 grains
Minimum weight was 189.9 grains.
The difference from max to min was 5.0 grains.
These contained 4.0 grains of powder.

You may expect factory ammunition to be more uniform but consider that while you have ammunition from one production lot of ammo, the production lots of the brass and bullets may not only be one production lot. Thereby, the variations between the individual production lots may stack and hide discrepancies in the powder charge.

 

[white cloud]

I agree with ReloadforFun, weighing is a waste of time for this sort of problem.

This thread has been pretty disturbing for me. I am glad that I reload my own ammunition. Having something like this happening when your revolver was really needed would be really bad.

 

[tom2]

Handgun ammo weighing may require at least a very sensitive scale, but a rifle round lacking powder ought to weigh substantially less due to the large powder charges and be evident, maybe.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

A basic lesson was taught in US Army basic training dealt with faulty ammunition. If it doesn't sound right or if it doesn't feel right there is a remedial procedure.

Anything produced by the millions will include the occasional defective unit. We must learn to recognize and deal with these potential problems.