Staging a DA trigger....

[rwsmith]

I work on NOT staging the trigger during long pull in DA. However, some of my guns seem to lend themselves to staging. Is it really bad form to stage the trigger or a matter of what works best for you?

 

[Tom Beavert]

Staging the trigger

The S&W manual says don't do it. I have no idea why. I don't shoot well unless I do it, why have you decided not to, just curious?

Tom B.

 

[Fishinfool]

I don't stage the trigger when shooting a DA revolver, I go for one long, smooth stroke. For me, anyway, DA revolver fire is to practice / simulate combat type use. SA is for slow, precision shots. Problem with staging the trigger is muscle memory, and not something you want to revert to during a self defense situation, as it slows you down, and is not needed RE accuracy, at typical SD ranges.

If your revolvers are only for range use, then not an issue I guess. I know a couple shooters who "stage" their DA triggers, both shooting Colt's, but they only carry 1911's for SD.

If I had to guess, I would think S&W doesn't recommend staging the trigger in DA because of the chance that guns with worn hands might not rotate the cylinder far enough to engage the cylinder stop prior to firing as the cylinder lacks momentum with a slow / halted DA pull?

Larry

 

[rwsmith]

One reason is...

The S&W manual says don't do it. I have no idea why. I don't shoot well unless I do it, why have you decided not to, just curious?

Tom B.

One reason I don't like to is that all my guns are different and I have to shoot each a few times to familiarize myself with the trigger. So I THINK it would be better technique to give each trigger one good squeeze. But like you, I shoot better with staging.

 

[swsig]

I have a SIG P250 DAO semi-auto. It has an extremely smooth, but very long trigger pull. It is difficult to not stage it when practicing. I'm far more accurate when I stage it, but I know that in a real-world self-defense scenario I won't be shooting it that way, so I try to practice with a single pull. But it's a hard habit to break.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Just my opinion, but DA triggers should be pulled straight through with no staging. I used to stage because I thought it was the only way I could get small groups with a DA trigger, but then I realized that wasn't the case. Once I got the hang of pulling a DA trigger straight through I found I could shoot better, in terms of both accuracy and speed.

There is a trick to it, though. The obvious part is to pull the trigger straight back. The not-so-obvious part is getting the speed right. You want to move the trigger fairly quickly, but not so fast that it disturbs the sights or results in jerking the trigger. It does take some practice to get the hang of it; dry fire helps a lot. The problem with using a too-slow DA pull is that 1) it requires a little more physical effort, and 2) it actually makes it harder to keep the sights aligned properly.

I think staging is bad technique. But if people want to continue shooting by staging their DA triggers, that's up to them. I just think they're cheating themselves in the long run.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[Toolguy]

I used to stage the trigger shooting PPC, but I found I was better off pulling through smoothly. Everyone has their own views on everything. For me, stopping the trigger and restarting it resulted in shots pulled to the side, because it takes more effort to get it going again once you stop. In action type matches you are going as quickly as possible and staging slows down the shooting by quite a bit. I'm ok with others doing it that way if they choose, it makes it easier to be ahead of them on the scoreboard.

 

[cmort666]

One of the best revolver shots I've known and the guy who worked on all of my revolvers taught me how to stage the trigger.

As soon as I started staging the trigger during our D/A revolver league matches, my scores went WAY up.

Shoot the way that works best for YOU.

 

[Kiwi cop]

I stage the trigger on my 686 on the 50 meter stage of our Service Match (a 90 shot modified PPC match). I have leaned just how to stop the cylinder and it locks, check the sights then give that final little squeeze to drop the hammer. For the 25 m and closer stager I just pull through in one.

I have tried single action cocking at the 50 m range but find myself running out of time.

The only other Match Inshoot a revolver on is a 48 round Classic Match using pre 1946 designs. Shot at 10 and 25 yards Imaimply pull the trigger on my Victory .38 S&W straight through.

For everything else I shoot a semi-auto, either a 1911 or a Tanfolglio P19 (EEA Witness) with a single action trigger kit, or a Glock 17 with the NY trigger when on duty.

 

[rwsmith]

I think my Sig.....

I have a SIG P250 DAO semi-auto. It has an extremely smooth, but very long trigger pull. It is difficult to not stage it when practicing. I'm far more accurate when I stage it, but I know that in a real-world self-defense scenario I won't be shooting it that way, so I try to practice with a single pull. But it's a hard habit to break.

I think that my Sig trigger has no action (almost free swinging) up to a point in the pull. I usually take up the trigger to that point and from then on I give one good pull. I like the trigger in that one, because the point where the action engages and the firing point are pretty close together. In an emergency I'd probably fire it off if I were surprised.

 

[rwsmith]

To me dry firing.....

Just my opinion, but DA triggers should be pulled straight through with no staging. I used to stage because I thought it was the only way I could get small groups with a DA trigger, but then I realized that wasn't the case. Once I got the hang of pulling a DA trigger straight through I found I could shoot better, in terms of both accuracy and speed.

There is a trick to it, though. The obvious part is to pull the trigger straight back. The not-so-obvious part is getting the speed right. You want to move the trigger fairly quickly, but not so fast that it disturbs the sights or results in jerking the trigger. It does take some practice to get the hang of it; dry fire helps a lot. The problem with using a too-slow DA pull is that 1) it requires a little more physical effort, and 2) it actually makes it harder to keep the sights aligned properly.

I think staging is bad technique. But if people want to continue shooting by staging their DA triggers, that's up to them. I just think they're cheating themselves in the long run.

Again, just my opinion.

To me, dry firing is the best exercise for moving your trigger straight back, without moving anything else. It's the 'Independently Mobile Trigger Finger'.

 

[JohnRippert]

I find that using the correct pace when pulling the DA trigger gives me the best accuracy. Too fast and I pull the front sight off the target. Smooth and even keeps me on target and my groups are very close to SA from 15yds and in. I have tried staging and I found that no matter how often I practice it I always end up pulling through once in a while and totally missing my target.

 

[LVSteve]

One reason I don't like to is that all my guns are different and I have to shoot each a few times to familiarize myself with the trigger.

This is why I don't ride the reset, either.

 

[nachogrande]

IF I RECALL CORRECTLY.

Staging will increase wear on internal parts (sear?) by putting the full weight on only a section of the part designed to hold it. How long before it MAY cause damage/wear, & become an issue??? I have to agree with the 1 long smooth DA pull, but have found myself doing it (for a "bit" while say waiting for a bowling pin to stop spinning for instance. I can't say what's best for everyone every time. Plus 1 for the old penny on the barrel DA dry firing practice.

 

[WardenRoss]

FWIW......Back when I went thru the academy, we were taught never to stage a revolver. Never. It was frowned upon. We were taught to learn a rhythm that would take 15 seconds to fire 12 rounds from the holster, with a combat (speed loader) reload.

We would practice over and over so that we had a consistent, repeating, smooth pull that would hesitate on the return (holding the trigger at the stop momentarily) and then gently let the finger pressure off the trigger at the release.

I was on our pistol team and I used this method with great success for years at police revolver competitions. This was back when revolvers were king.

Using this method, I had no trouble getting all 12 rounds in the 5x at 15 yards. Even today, I can rapid fire a revolver and time it for 12 rounds and it takes me exactly 15 seconds. I believe I could do it blindfolded.

I'm a firm believer in repetition when training.

 

[Whitwabit]

I can see where staging the DA trigger when practicing could possibly make one slightly more accurate ..

But during a self defense encounter staging the trigger might make you fire before you are ready and on target .. I've found a constant straight back trigger pull is as accurate with practice as trying to stage with out firing ..

So No I do not stage .. another reason is I sometimes carry a striker fired S&W Compact which trigger is much different then my Sig legion P229 DA/SA or the DA/SA trigger on my Berretta PX4 Sub Compact .. both of which are very smooth but rather long pull in DA !!

 

[Whitwabit]

FWIW......Back when I went thru the academy, we were taught never to stage a revolver. Never. It was frowned upon. We were taught to learn a rhythm that would take 15 seconds to fire 12 rounds from the holster, with a combat (speed loader) reload.

We would practice over and over so that we had a consistent, repeating, smooth pull that would hesitate on the return (holding the trigger at the stop momentarily) and then gently let the finger pressure off the trigger at the release.

I was on our pistol team and I used this method with great success for years at police revolver competitions. This was back when revolvers were king.

Using this method, I had no trouble getting all 12 rounds in the 5x at 15 yards. Even today, I can rapid fire a revolver and time it for 12 rounds and it takes me exactly 15 seconds. I believe I could do it blindfolded.

I'm a firm believer in repetition when training.

Many never learn the rhythm you speak of and their quick fire targets are rather spread out but still respectable and they are happy with that .. I was taught the rhythm method many years ago by the man who taught me to shoot !! Trigger staging is not used ..

 

[vonn]

Good posts on this topic. For me it boils down to practice,then practice some more.

 

[chief38]

I work on NOT staging the trigger during long pull in DA. However, some of my guns seem to lend themselves to staging. Is it really bad form to stage the trigger or a matter of what works best for you?

When I shot PPC matches I purposely staged the trigger (for most parts of the match) to get more accurate shots. Some others did the same. Other competitors could never really master it and just shot straight DA. If you can win a match without breaking rules - WHY NOT?!

I do know what you mean though...... My M586 almost stages itself and I did shoot it in some of my latter matches For the most part I used a Pre M15 Combat Masterpiece for PPC and that does well at staging too.

 

[chief38]

For the most part, Revolvers with an early lock-up seem to stage better than the ones with a late lock-up. When I was competing, I was not all that concerned that staging would wear parts faster as I am proficient at rebuilding them and am lucky enough to have a bunch of parts to do so with.

That said - - - I never had to rebuild those revolvers and they still work perfectly today.

 

[Walkingwolf]

This is another one of those personal choice issues that bug the heck out of people.

From the great philosopher Nike "Just do it!". Don't worry about what everybody else is doing.

 

[D Brown]

I can't imagine what the perceived advantage would be for "staging" a double action trigger. Get a timer out and check your split times at 10-15 yards. Mine average 0.30". You can't do that if you're "staging" the trigger.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I can't imagine what the perceived advantage would be for "staging" a double action trigger. Get a timer out and check your split times at 10-15 yards. Mine average 0.30". You can't do that if you're "staging" the trigger.

I like shooting 1 inch groups from a rest, staging for me at my age is a definite advantage on the only DAO gun I have. Keep in mind that some guns(Glock) there is no choice, the trigger is staged as part of the action by being precocked. And some people rave about how great Glocks are.

Myself I am a SA fan, started shooting with a SA, and love the accuracy. For myself I just cannot get that kind of accuracy with a DAO. But that is me, your mileage may vary.

What it boils down to, and I am OCD about it. I just don't care, I do what works best for me, and don't give a hoot how anyone else does it. As long as it is legal.

Ever wonder why fine rifles have two stage triggers?

 

[Farmer17]

It depends on the gun. A K-N frame Smith revolver with a smooth action is a joy to shoot double action and I like to pull straight through. A J-frame with coil mainspring is a bit different and I pull straight through but slow down a little at the very end so I partially "stage it". My 1979 Ruger Security Six .357 doesn't have near as smooth a trigger so I fully stage it . My CZ 75 Omega 9m/m has a VERY hard, stacking DA pull and I can't really stage it so I pull straight through. I would sell that gun but it has a wonderful single action pull.

 

[chief38]

I can't imagine what the perceived advantage would be for "staging" a double action trigger. Get a timer out and check your split times at 10-15 yards. Mine average 0.30". You can't do that if you're "staging" the trigger.

Makes it easier to shoot more accurately - for me. Becomes almost like shooting single action. Some prefer this method, some despise it - to each his own. Like I said, as long as it's not illegal or unsafe, do what lets you be the best you can be.

 

[rwsmith]

I wonder....

The S&W manual says don't do it. I have no idea why. I don't shoot well unless I do it, why have you decided not to, just curious?

Tom B.

Somebody that is shaky and undecided might wear a hollow into the action if they do that every shot.

 

[AJ]

I sometimes stage some of my revolvers and some I do not. I have a PPC revolver (Model 14) that I stage, as I do my 342 and 36. I do not stage my 27. It is all in how you train. When I was in the Corps, I was assigned to a Naval Station as a security advisor. I also was the Chief Weapons Instructor. I decided I needed to qualify with all the handguns that they used. On both the Ruger Speed Six & S&W 36, I shot using the staging method. Was able to shoot Distinguished Expert (240/240) with both. Like I said it is all in how you train.

 

[joe44va]

If you are going to take the time to stage the hammer, why not just cock it and fire single action?
I suspect that, if you are surprised by a snake, you won't stage the hammer.

 

[Walkingwolf]

If you are going to take the time to stage the hammer, why not just cock it and fire single action?
I suspect that, if you are surprised by a snake, you won't stage the hammer.

There might be several reasons, I do not have to know what they are to know they are valid. If I am surprised by a snake I will back away from the snake. Snake only strikes half the distance of it's length, and the strike is faster than the blink of an eye. If the snake is that close to me to strike, I am screwed. I see snakes all the time, most the time I leave them alone.

The only person(if he was still alive) that could probably beat a striking snake would be Bob Munden.

 

[AJ]

There might be several reasons, I do not have to know what they are to know they are valid. If I am surprised by a snake I will back away from the snake. Snake only strikes half the distance of it's length, and the strike is faster than the blink of an eye. If the snake is that close to me to strike, I am screwed. I see snakes all the time, most the time I leave them alone.

The only person(if he was still alive) that could probably beat a striking snake would be Bob Munden.

I was timed at drawing and firing once during a training exercise with LASO SEB. I was timed at 0.8 of a second, pretty quick......but not faster than a snake.