Standard versus automatic transmissions...

[Muley Gil]

"Years ago it was assumed that if you kept a car long enough you would have to rebuild an auto. This is no longer true, but if you drive a stick, you will replace a clutch."

Gee, I guess I hadn't gotten the word on that yet. I drive a '95 Isuzu pick-up with the 5 speed manual tranny. It has 208K plus miles on it and the factory original clutch. I used to haul up to twenty 50 lb bags of horse feed in it; that is a true 1/2 ton, and that didn't seem to hurt it.

"There is no real advantage to a stick shift, so why bother."

I live in the mountains and the manual tranny does better for braking downhill than the automatics I have driven.

 

[Beemerguy53]

It's real simple, if there was a decent sized market for manual transmissions in most vehicles the manufacturers would still offer them.

Same reason Smith & Wesson does not still offer some guns they used to make.

I agree with you in part, but there is another factor at play here as well...

In the USA, cars must be certified to meet emissions and safety standards set by the US Government. A standard transmission car, for purposes of certification, is a separate model and must be certified separately from the same car with an automatic transmission. That's expensive, and if the manufacturer doesn't see enough of a market for standard transmissions to offset that cost, they won't offer it.

 

[FAS1]

My Daily driver = Automatic

My FUN Cars = Standard (no paddles)

I am also amazed at how many young people can't drive a stick. Everyone should learn on a stick so they know how to drive one. You never know when you might need to. My son's two vehicles are standard and his wife can't use the truck when she needs to because she hasn't mastered the stick yet.

 

[blackpowder30]

blackdeuce has got it right. This thread started on a sports car discussion. I have two cars with automatic only, and a 1999 Prowler that I purchased new. The Prowler has autostick and is great fun when in stick. It is all just personal preference. I am also opposed to so called Stability Control on sports cars. I call stability control on sports cars training wheels. What is the point of having a sports car that drives for you. Get a chauffeur.

 

[mkk41]

My Daily driver = Automatic

My FUN Cars = Standard (no paddles)

I am also amazed at how many young people can't drive a stick. Everyone should learn on a stick so they know how to drive one. You never know when you might need to. My son's two vehicles are standard and his wife can't use the truck when she needs to because she hasn't mastered the stick yet.

And it should be a 3 speed on the column ("3 on the tree") and have manual (non-power) steering too , huh?

 

[Beemerguy53]

Do you stick shift jockeys like cranky windows and no A/C. Evolution allowed us to walk upright and cars have evolved from crank start and wooden wheels to the beautiful machines we have today. The current CVT transmissions blow every other trans away on the street.

I will walk before I own a CVT...worst automatics ever, IMHO, from an enthusiast's point of view.

The whole standard-vs.-automatic debate, at least for me, is not about fuel economy or comfort in heavy traffic or technological advantage; it's about whether the driver is controlling the car, and how involved he is with the art of driving.

It's no coincidence that in Europe, where driving is generally taken much more seriously than it is here, and where many of world's best cars are designed and built, standard transmissions predominate. Not only sports cars, but rental cars, taxis, emergency vehicles, minivans, ordinary sedans, etc., are all, for the most part, manually-shifted.

Here in the USA, where it is ridiculously easy to get, and keep, a driver's license, where people hog the left lane, and where we can't get nitwits to stop texting and phoning while driving, automatics are the norm. Go figure...

 

[Llando88]

False. Automatics are weaker period. Everything from Pro Stock to Top Fuel is still manually shifted today. Automatics are only favorites among the amateur drag race crowd due to their consistency and the popularity of bracket, rather than heads up, racing. The fact of the matter is that a manual transmission is always going to be lighter (no converter, dozen-odd quarts of oil, etc.), more efficient (compare MPG ratings on any car available with both as options), stronger (see below) and quicker, in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, than an automatic.

And then there's the fact that semi-tractors capable of pulling 40+ tons are also all manually shifted...

Bottom line: No one serious about quickly going fast, or moving a lot of weight, even considers an auto.

I would consider Formula 1 constructors to be fairly serious about going fast.

 

[Old TexMex]

Beemerguy, just out of curiosity, how you feel about slipper clutches on the bike?

 

[Llando88]

Notwithstanding the above light-hearted joke (j/k -db- ) I've owned one AT vehicle, my '99 Benz C280 (argh - what a nightmare - that car was in the shop more than our '98 Chrysler Minivan).

I understand modern ATs get better mileage, shift smoother, are faster around a racetrack - and utterly without soul.

The reason I like a MT car is the sheer physical enjoyment of the mechanical manipulation of throttle, clutch, brake and gearshift. I purchased my current vehicle (BMW M3) with a 6MT, even though the DCT-equipped car is quicker 0-60, and can execute a perfectly rev-matched double clutch downshift, every time.

 

[ladder13]

Fact is, very, very few people can drive a stick as well as a modern automatic.

Or a stick properly.

 

[Muley Gil]

"And it should be a 3 speed on the column ("3 on the tree") and have manual (non-power) steering too , huh?"

And what's wrong with that? If you learn how to drive a vehicle set up that way, you can pretty much drive any standard car or truck you might come into contact with.

BTW, the first vehicle I ever drove was my momma's '65 Impala, straight six, three on the tree, and manual steering. My first car was a '52 Buick Super with an OHV straight eight, DynaFlow tranny, and manual steering.

My little Isuzu has manual steering as well. It's not much fun getting out of a parking space, but it handles fine out on the road.

 

[wheelgun28]

For sports cars, manuals are going away.

Super cars are pretty much all paddle shift and gaining momentum.

Even pain old autos have manual modes and sport modes that can come close to standard shift.

I was a big manual trans guy, pickups and cars. That was all I wanted. I wound up with autos for a while and I dont know if I want another manual, but I am considering one.

Others have mentioned drag racing, we went pretty darn fast back in the day with GM autos. Add in a shift kit and a smaller converter, you can keep a ratio taller in the rear. Yet still get rubber on the shifts and run a big cam. I knew guys that had really fast cars, low 8 sec 1/4 with th400 it was worked but solid. Even at the line, transbrake etc. I havent played with that stuff in 20 years. Back them the big classes were using Lenco transmissions, planetary reduction I thought?

Before the autos the "hemi crash box" was the one to have. The autos did away with that.

Todays autos have how many gears 7 or 8?

 

[mkk41]

Here in the USA, where it is ridiculously easy to get, and keep, a driver's license, where people hog the left lane, and where we can't get nitwits to stop texting and phoning while driving, automatics are the norm. Go figure...

Yep , seems like your drivers license can get suspended or revoked for just about any reason other than bad driving!

 

[Beemerguy53]

Beemerguy, just out of curiosity, how you feel about slipper clutches on the bike?

They're a technological advantage for some riders. I don't even know if the three Beemers I've owned in the last 23 years had one.

 

[Beemerguy53]

Notwithstanding the above light-hearted joke (j/k -db- ) I've owned one AT vehicle, my '99 Benz C280 (argh - what a nightmare - that car was in the shop more than our '98 Chrysler Minivan).

I understand modern ATs get better mileage, shift smoother, are faster around a racetrack - and utterly without soul.

The reason I like a MT car is the sheer physical enjoyment of the mechanical manipulation of throttle, clutch, brake and gearshift. I purchased my current vehicle (BMW M3) with a 6MT, even though the DCT-equipped car is quicker 0-60, and can execute a perfectly rev-matched double clutch downshift, every time.

YOU GET IT!!!!

Thanks!

 

[Jack Flash]

I can understand wanting a manual transmission on a sports car. Lord knows, I've had a few.

But for everyday driving in traffic, make mine an AT. These days, it seems like you're often in heavy traffic, even out in the sticks. ( No pun intended )

 

[Bullet Bob]

I don't see why anyone has to draw any lines (Thanks Hank Junior- "Young Country"), but it's your choice.

To me. it's all good. There are some people who only like single-shot rifles, some who only like lever actions, and some, usually younger folks, who only like semiautomatics.

I have, use, and like them all. Same with transmissions.

 

[FAS1]

And it should be a 3 speed on the column ("3 on the tree") and have manual (non-power) steering too , huh?

Well, that would be my other vehicle that I learned to drive with and was handed down from my Dad. A 1963 Chevy Stepside. 35 years ago when I was in High School I did remove the six for a small block and moved the stick from the column to the floor. No A/C, power steering, windows, etc. It's actually pretty cool the way it is and I still have an appreciation for mechanical things that seem to last a life time.

 

[arjay]

My first car was a 51 Ford PU with a flat head 6. Had to double clutch to shift with a top speed of 50 mph.I'd love to have that one back.

 

[jaykellogg]

Don't overlook the fact that modern cars and trucks have more computer power on board than the earliest space vehicles. As you drive your vehicle it "learns" your driving style and adjusts some things accordingly. This includes the transmission which is now pretty much computer controlled.