"standing your ground" while breaking into home?

[bunkshaner]

just came across this article, this guy kicked in the door of someone with the intent of robbing him (he also had a partner in crime both carrying pistols), feels he shouldn't be prosecuted because he was in fear for his life when he faced the homeowner. Are you freaking serious? If they allow this to happen it will surely cause a lot more of freaking laws hurting our rights while protecting criminals. Am I looking at this the wrong way? Does anyone else think this guy is an idiot?

COLUMBIA, SC: SC Supreme Court stops murder trial, orders hearing on ?Stand Your Ground? defense | Crime | The State

 

[Murcus]

Stand Your Ground

It is common for the "stand your ground" laws to also have wording that the person who is "standing their ground" must be in a place where they have a lawful right to be in, and not in the process of committing an unlawful act. The mere use of the words that the perpetrator was fearful for his safety will not mitigate the fact he was committing an unlawful act. This will not go anywhere.

 

[Doug M.]

The actual issue being considered is not about the legal applicability of the defense, but about the procedural issue of when in the court proceedings it can be raised. I suspect that this is an easy case in which to conduct that analysis, since the applicability of it is such a laugher.

 

[nawilson]

Attorneys are paid to make arguments. They don't have to be good arguments. I am sure it won't go too far.

 

[TexasArmed]

Still thankful I live in Texas. When he kicked the door in before he ever got sight of me I would be shooting thru the door. Going to the door with a gun in the case of the criminal allows the criminal to get off the first shot. My home, my rules, if my door comes down he goes down with it.

 

[SMSgt]

In FL, SD is not a viable defense during commission of a crime.

 

[maddog909]

Any armed idiot breaking into someone else's property should be in fear of losing their life, that comes with the job choice of being a burglar. It doesn't legitimize the use of a stand your ground defense. If it did the criminals would be free to entertain their illegal enterprises. Can't believe that S.C. Courts let this get that far.

 

[Doug M.]

Folks, read the article more carefully. The question is not whether or not the defense could apply or be used here, which seems unlikely at best, but when it can be raised in the course of proceedings. I'd have to see the pleadings directly to be sure, but the article makes that pretty clear.

 

[dereksfl]

They can raise it, but they don't have a leg to stand on. (Pardon the pun) Since they were in a commission of a crime. Stand your ground will not apply, at least here in Florida that is how it shakes out legally.

 

[16thVACav]

Folks, read the article more carefully. The question is not whether or not the defense could apply or be used here, which seems unlikely at best, but when it can be raised in the course of proceedings. I'd have to see the pleadings directly to be sure, but the article makes that pretty clear.

Guys -

Doug has identified the issue precisely. The only point that the SCSC wants to nail down is when the Stand Your Ground defense should be heard, not whether the defense is available to bad guys (it is not!).

 

[David Armstrong]

Still thankful I live in Texas. When he kicked the door in before he ever got sight of me I would be shooting thru the door. Going to the door with a gun in the case of the criminal allows the criminal to get off the first shot. My home, my rules, if my door comes down he goes down with it.

You might want to ID the target before you start shooting at it, through the door or not. Mistakes happen.

 

[TexasArmed]

You might want to ID the target before you start shooting at it, through the door or not. Mistakes happen.

I have a fairly strong dead bolted door. If it is being kicked down and nobody is identifying themselves as police or fire department, there is little chance of a mistake. The gunfight won't take place inside my apartment.

No, I won't be doing a visual inspection on who is kicking it down. With meth and crack addicts running loose because the jails are to full and some of them doing home invasions,
I won't be their victim for their next drug high.

 

[JJEH]

It's always the same. The Hobby- and Weekend criminals want to be so bad@$$, but when something happens to them they are either dead or act like cry babies... disgusting!

 

[Practical]

Why do we call them stand your ground laws rather than self-defense laws?

Stand your Ground seems like a confrontational term that prejudices people into thinking the person defending themselves is 'aggressive'.

 

[David Armstrong]

I have a fairly strong dead bolted door. If it is being kicked down and nobody is identifying themselves as police or fire department, there is little chance of a mistake. The gunfight won't take place inside my apartment.

No, I won't be doing a visual inspection on who is kicking it down. With meth and crack addicts running loose because the jails are to full and some of them doing home invasions,
I won't be their victim for their next drug high.

Again, You might want to ID the target before you start shooting at it, through the door or not. Mistakes happen. If you are so unsure of your abilites with a gun that you can't wait to get a postive ID of the target you might want to reconsider the whole gun thing, IMO. Cooper's Rule #4 is there for a reason.

 

[David Armstrong]

Why do we call them stand your ground laws rather than self-defense laws?

Stand your Ground seems like a confrontational term that prejudices people into thinking the person defending themselves is 'aggressive'.

Becauses "stand your ground" is designed to reduce the issue of preclusion or apparent necessity from the traditional self defense consideration.

 

[Mcwsky09]

Castle doctrine

Why do we call them stand your ground laws rather than self-defense laws?

Stand your Ground seems like a confrontational term that prejudices people into thinking the person defending themselves is 'aggressive'.

I believe the legal term in Castle Doctrine or Defense of Habitation. Castle doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the stand your ground aspect is the result of a number of states amending the law such that you are not obligated to try to evade and flee in a case where an uninvited person enters your dwelling. That and saying castle doctrine sounds like a commercial for the SCA or a travel brochure to Scottland.

In tems of legal proceedings I have jury duty this week and while I have not been called to be screened for an active jury (yet) I did learn something. In the orientation material it says the opening and closing statements are NOT evidence and do not need to be considered in reaching a decision. Also interesting is that some courts do and some don't allow you take notes during the proceedings and you are not allowed to discuss the case with your fellow jurors until deliberations begin. even the questions asked during the proceedings are not evidence only the testimony given and the exhibits entered.

Also don't forget that our legal system is not about justice or even finding the truth, it is an adversarial system where the job of each side is to get the best deal they can for their client.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Well, hold on to your hats, the WH is now questioning the SYG law in view of the recent verdict in FL-- What else.

 

[TexasArmed]

Again, You might want to ID the target before you start shooting at it, through the door or not. Mistakes happen. If you are so unsure of your abilites with a gun that you can't wait to get a postive ID of the target you might want to reconsider the whole gun thing, IMO. Cooper's Rule #4 is there for a reason.

Nope I won't reconsider the whole gun thing. You do it your way, I will do it mine, but my intention is to survive. I will not give the criminal an even chance if he is kicking my door down. You can go turn your gun in if you like. You won't find any case law in Texas where criminals have been able to sue home owners for getting shot when they kicked a door in.

In a small apartment, with another disabled family member at risk I will not give the intruder any chance if I can help it.
If it is the police or the fire department they can identify themselves. Where I live its a 99.99% chance its a meth or crack addict who is looking for a victim so as to fund his next high. So you do it your way, I will do it mine. And no I won't holler I have a gun. I simply wait till the door is clearly coming down.

Of course if anyone here or elsewhere wants to pay for an armed guard to insure that the person kicking my door in does not have an AK-47 their welcome to do so. Till then I will handle my own homeland security and protection, and let you handle yours.

 

[szuppo]

TexasArmed - Right on brother!


Semper Fi!