"standing your ground" while breaking into home?

[David Armstrong]

I believe the legal term in Castle Doctrine or Defense of Habitation. Castle doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the stand your ground aspect is the result of a number of states amending the law such that you are not obligated to try to evade and flee in a case where an uninvited person enters your dwelling. That and saying castle doctrine sounds like a commercial for the SCA or a travel brochure to Scottland.

Real close. Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground are similar concepts but different reasoning. Castle Doctrine applies to home or business and goes back to the common law "a man's home is his castle" idea. In essence, in your home you had the right to stand and fight to defend your home even if you could avoid it. SYG takes that concept and allows it to be used outside of the home. Traditional self defense includes preclusion, the idea that if you can avoid the fight you must avoid the fight. SYG changes that to if you are legally where you are and you are acting in a legal manner you do not have to avoid the conflict, you can stand your ground and fight.

And it's Scotland with one "L", darn it. A "Mc" should do that right!
David, son of James;
Clan Armstrong

 

[Protected One]

What is the "good reason" for identifying the person? I've heard "it could be a family member, drunk neighbor, etc." - all of which are ASKING to get shot by kicking in my door.

 

[Rastoff]

Shooting through a door or wall is always a bad idea. As long as they are on the other side of the door, you are not in imminent danger of losing your life. Legally, you are putting yourself in jeopardy if you shoot through a door.

You still have plenty of time, and tactical advantage, by waiting until they actually get through the door. I'm extremely confident that I'd be able to shoot them once they got the door open.

Besides, if you have as good a door as you say, they won't get through it anyway.

However, this is a perfect example for SYG. If someone is beating down the door, SYG allows you to stay and wait for them to come through the door rather than being required to head out the back.

 

[Rastoff]

Wait, I just noticed that you live in an apartment. This gives you less reason to shoot through the door.

Here's a true story:
A friend was asleep in bed and was awakened by a noise in the kitchen. He grabbed his gun and went to investigate. Sure enough there is a large black man trying to get in the door. He has broken the window near the door and was opening the door when my friend shouted at him. The black guy ran.

My friend called the cops. When the cops got there, they were surprised my friend hadn't shot the guy. While they were discussing the situation, the black guy shows up again.

If you haven't guessed it, the black guy thought he was breaking into his own apartment. He had been to a bar, was a little intoxicated and lost his keys. He wasn't a bad guy, just someone who made a mistake. He paid for the window repair and no charges were filed.

This is not that uncommon.

 

[jack the toad]

just came across this article, this guy kicked in the door of someone with the intent of robbing him (he also had a partner in crime both carrying pistols), feels he shouldn't be prosecuted because he was in fear for his life when he faced the homeowner. Are you freaking serious? If they allow this to happen it will surely cause a lot more of freaking laws hurting our rights while protecting criminals. Am I looking at this the wrong way? Does anyone else think this guy is an idiot?

I wouldn't wanna ask US AG Eric Holder this. Appears that stupid *** wants to repeal stand your ground and replace with some sort of duty to retreat BS.
Attorney General Eric Holder denounces ?stand your ground? laws - The Washington Post

 

[David Armstrong]

What is the "good reason" for identifying the person? I've heard "it could be a family member, drunk neighbor, etc." - all of which are ASKING to get shot by kicking in my door.

I'll give you an case I worked years back. Daddy got a call at home, was told his daughter had drank to much and passed out and the entire football team was "enjoying" her. Daddy went to house, door was locked, he came in anyway. Now let's imagine Daddy got the wrong address and kicked your door? Think that is worth killing someone over....assuming you can even hit them since you can't see them.

 

[FLSTFI]

That would be Daddy's fault. Would I feel bad, yes. Would it change how I would handle the situation, no. Once he is thru the door I still would not know who he is and that would be the end of him.

 

[jlrhiner]

Where do you folks get the idea it's "OK" for someone to kick in your door/break in to your home and then say "oops!"

Your not psychic. You do not know their intentions. They may be the greatest person in the world, but they're kicking in your door! That is an act of aggression to you and your family. Defend your self!

This desire to "Monday morning quarterback" and justify their actions will get you hurt.

 

[Rastoff]

I understand why you might say that, but chances are you're going to jail if you do.

 

[TexasArmed]

I understand why you might say that, but chances are you're going to jail if you do.

I doubt it. You want find any case law to support that in Texas.

 

[Rastoff]

To answer your question, no, I won't break rule 4 for any reason. In case you don't know, rule 4 is:
Be aware of your target and what's in line with it.

If I'm in a store and someone is shooting, I'm moving for cover. My family comes first and getting them out of the line of fire is paramount.

There is a lot more to self defense than shooting your gun. That is another topic and not for this thread.

 

[s&wchad]

I deleted 18 repetitive posts and call your attention to the following:

UNDERSTAND this-
We WON'T change the World here, nor will we be able to fix all the ills afflicting our society.
This forum is not here for the purpose of converting other posters to your ideals, beliefs, and opinions.

... and this:

2. Remember- opinions will differ. Get over it. State your opinion calmly, and allow others to state theirs.

This thread isn't about one members strategy for dealing with a home invasion, it's about a State Supreme Court hearing over a procedural issue.

From the article:

The arguments the high court wants to hear apparently don't involve the substance of the law – they involve at what point in a trial process a judge should hold a full hearing about whether evidence can be introduced about whether the defendant can assert that he enjoys immunity from prosecution because he was in fear for his life when he used deadly force.

Read more here: COLUMBIA, SC: SC Supreme Court stops murder trial, orders hearing on ?Stand Your Ground? defense | Crime | The State​

I'm not sure what more there is to be said about the case, but stay on topic and don't beat dead horses if you want this thread to stay open.

 

[bunkshaner]

Since I was the one who started this post, my point of the post was just the fact that the bad dude felt he could use the "standing ground" defense even though he was the one who broke into someone elses home with his partner in crime and while both had handguns. I understand that the courts are trying to figure out evidence procedure etc. By me saying, "if they allow this...." it was meaning allowing someone to use the "stand your ground" defense while committing a felony would cause a huge issue across the board and could result in future laws protecting the bad guys or bad guys who are committing this type of felony will always resort to using this defense. The homeowner/renter/dweller etc has the right to defend themselves and their property but the bad guy doesn't have the same rights while committing the crime. The other dude didn't force the bad guns to break in or bring a gun with them. It could just be a legal tactic to try and get a plea or they feel its their only chance of winning their case or at least lowering their sentence...i don't know. It just burns me up that the defense can even be used while committing a felony.

 

[M29since14]

It just burns me up that the defense can even be used while committing a felony.

Don't be. I doubt there is a state in the nation that has written a SYG law that can be used by someone who was engaging in illegal activity.

 

[David Armstrong]

Don't be. I doubt there is a state in the nation that has written a SYG law that can be used by someone who was engaging in illegal activity.

Correct. As a general rule that is applicable to self defense in general, it does not apply if you are committing a felony. SYG laws are pretty specific in that you must be where you are legally and engaged in legal activity.