Star/Astra handguns

One of the things I really like about the Star BKS is it's weight. My BKS weighs 23.25 ounces unloaded. My commander sized RIA, on the other hand, weighs 35.45 ounces. One downside to the Star, however, is that it won't accept a standard 1911 magazine. Oh well!
 
My Llama dates to the 30s. When i bought it some guy was using it as a trunk gun and had it inside an Astra 600 holster. He kept spray painting it every time he saw rust. I paid $80 for it.

y6eva8ym.jpg


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quge6usa.jpg


This is already after some light cleaning.

mare8yta.jpg


Some more cleaning and boiling.

adyrabab.jpg


ve7y3ada.jpg


azy6arad.jpg


jydunu7e.jpg


And the final result.

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I have yet to blue it. All i did was to take off the spray paint and oxidation. There was about 1% bluing left under all the crud and most of it is on the internals.

From what i've been able to find the pinky grove on the frame, those specific grips and a few other specific parts make it a domestic gun ment for and used in the Spanish civil war. Supposedly it has an original match grade barrel. The barrel itself is frosted but here are my groupings at about 12 feet.

penu6enu.jpg
 
My Llama dates to the 30s. When i bought it some guy was using it as a trunk gun and had it inside an Astra 600 holster. He kept spray painting it every time he saw rust. I paid $80 for it.

y6eva8ym.jpg


uve3yhe3.jpg


quge6usa.jpg


This is already after some light cleaning.

mare8yta.jpg


Some more cleaning and boiling.

adyrabab.jpg


ve7y3ada.jpg


azy6arad.jpg


jydunu7e.jpg


And the final result.

3u7u9ezy.jpg


ypyda4uh.jpg


I have yet to blue it. All i did was to take off the spray paint and oxidation. There was about 1% bluing left under all the crud and most of it is on the internals.

From what i've been able to find the pinky grove on the frame, those specific grips and a few other specific parts make it a domestic gun ment for and used in the Spanish civil war. Supposedly it has an original match grade barrel. The barrel itself is frosted but here are my groupings at about 12 feet.

penu6enu.jpg


Does this gun take normal 9X 19mm ammo? I can't read the slide inscription. It may be chambered for 9mm Largo.

I hope you get it nicely blued. Glad you saved it from its former fate.
 
Does this gun take normal 9X 19mm ammo? I can't read the slide inscription. It may be chambered for 9mm Largo.

I hope you get it nicely blued. Glad you saved it from its former fate.

Yep standard 9x19.

It has some oddities, like I cant find another mag for it. Even the identical looking Llamas that were imported here have a slightly different mag. I even exchanged emails and mags with a guy who's a big Spanish pistol pro and none of them fit. :banghead: im going to try 9mm 1911 mags, hopefully they work.

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My Llama dates to the 30s. When i bought it some guy was using it as a trunk gun and had it inside an Astra 600 holster. He kept spray painting it every time he saw rust. I paid $80 for it.


uve3yhe3.jpg



I have yet to blue it. All i did was to take off the spray paint and oxidation. There was about 1% bluing left under all the crud and most of it is on the internals.

From what i've been able to find the pinky grove on the frame, those specific grips and a few other specific parts make it a domestic gun ment for and used in the Spanish civil war. Supposedly it has an original match grade barrel. The barrel itself is frosted but here are my groupings at about 12 feet.

penu6enu.jpg

Your's is a Llama Model XI-A in 9mm Parabellum w/a 5" Bbl
A shorter bbl version in 9mmP had the Model XI-B designation.
Right at the end of production it was made in 40S&W and was labeled the
Model XII-B
I think they made the model in 45acp too (late production) but don't recall the model#,,maybe XII-A(?)

It was made from the mid 30's till at least the late 1990's.
The grooved wooden grips are earliest production.
Then checkered wood,,then plastic.

It looks like a 'Q' proof date code on the frame over the trigger ,,it was proofed (mfg'd) in 1946.

If it's a 'G' then 1934,,and a good bet for use in the SCW.

That 'W' shaped detent power spring on the left side of the frame was only used on a couple of other Llama models. I'm not sure it was even used on the later production XI.
Many in the Llama and Star line do have a small bit of the bottom front gripstrap project forward as a grip aid, AFAIK the XI was the only Llama semi auto to have the actual finger grip grooves in the front strap.

When first made, it was Llama's first cal 9mmP production pistol I believe.

It's been sold all over the world and used by police and security. If the proof code/date is 'Q' (1946),,it's a bit late to have been used in the SCW. But many no doubt were.

Very nice clean up of the pistol. Early Llama & Star semiautos are not as common as they once were. Shoots good too!

Added: re: xtra mag,,This model used to be called a '9mm Especial'.
'Especial' was a common model designation term used on most Llama early semiautos.
The caliber being the difference between them.
There's a later production 9mmP also commonly called the 'Especial' but I don't know if the mags are the same.
I think these XI pistols mags hold 8.

The Roman Numeral Model designations came on later after this pistol was already in production. Model names were dropped and the Numeral designations began in an attempt to straighten out the confusion .

Perhaps an extra magazine might be listed under that early '9mm Especial' designation.

They almost look like an early (narrow base plate) STAR Model B magazine would fit. But that's really a guess. The frames are nearly the same in size/width. Even if it locked into place, there'd probably be fitting & trimming to the bottom as the angle looks more acute.
Just thinkin'....
 
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"I have an old Llama that has very little info online about it. Its a full size 1911 style 9mm. Wish someone would write a book on Llama pistols."

I second that. I have owned 3 Llamas - One .38 Spl revolver (very similar to a S&W Model 10, with 2" barrel, one 1911-style in .38/9mm (as marked, but it shot .38 Super, 9mm Largo and 9mm Steyr equally well), and one I still have, which is, I think a Model XII in .45 ACP, which is much like a Colt GM, but with a rib on the slide and an adjustable rear sight. I think it is from the late 1970s-early 1980s. All appeared to be well-made and reliable. I really like the .45, I think it's as well finished (at least mine is) as any Colt. It just seems a bit sloppier in fit, but it shoots quite well. I saw nothing inferior about any of the 3 Llamas. I don't know why so many badmouth them. I wish I still had the two I sold.
 
The Llama (or Ruby) snub mentioned above may be the Martial Model. Sometimes, older editions of Stoeger's Shooter's Bible will list models, and you can see the then-current prices.

At the Ruger 30th Anniversary press luncheon in San Antonio in 1979, I asked Col. Chas. Askins about Spanish guns, knowing that he probably knew them as well as any US gun scribe. He was US military attache at the Embassy in Madrid for some years and formed close ties to some of the manufacturers in Eibar. I think he was especially close to the people at Aguirre and Aranzabal.

He replied that, "They're about as good as our stuff." He definitely felt they were underrated.

But if you offered him a Colt Govt. Model auto or a. 38 Super to protect himself, or an equivalent Star or Llama, I feel practically certain that he'd opt for the US gun.

See my post above about soft steel in some cases, and about inertial firing pins. However, South Africa issued some Star Model B 9mms during the UN arms embargo that lasted from the early 1960's to about 1995, when the drastic change in government occurred. These guns apparently served well until supplemented or replaced with Walther and Beretta designs.

One of those Star 9mms achieved some distinction in being the sidearm used by a South African officer who used it to kill some Cubans attacking his stalled tank or armored car in Angola after it was out of ammo for the main gun and machine guns. Some of them got right up on the tank before he shot them, and seemed to be on dope.


The Star worked fine and the captain in question was awarded the Honoris Crux (Cross of Honor) , which was, I think, the highest medal they gave. He and his crew had been through unhappy Hades during the fighting and more was involved than told here. I suspect that he was pretty pleased to have had that pistol... No question that it saved his bacon, er, biltong.

Some of you may recall that article in SOF a few years back.
 
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Texas Star, the scratch marks on the underside of the slide on your Model B may have been Roman numerals that were fitter's marks designed to help keep the parts together during assembly, polishing and bluing. Antaris discusses that practice in the wonderful book he wrote Star Firearms.
I suggest that anyone with even a passing interest in Star firearms pick up this book. It is equivalent in scope to Clawson's "Big Book" on the M1911 Service Pistols, and the color photos are pure gun porn.
 
Texas Star, the scratch marks on the underside of the slide on your Model B may have been Roman numerals that were fitter's marks designed to help keep the parts together during assembly, polishing and bluing. Antaris discusses that practice in the wonderful book he wrote Star Firearms.
I suggest that anyone with even a passing interest in Star firearms pick up this book. It is equivalent in scope to Clawson's "Big Book" on the M1911 Service Pistols, and the color photos are pure gun porn.

Maybe, Walter, but I don't recall that they looked Roman. And the scratches were bright, cut through the bluing. Some guns were rejected by countries in the Middle East for soft parts and Interarms may have imported some. I wish I knew.

Where do I find Antaris's book, and is that the author's name or a pen name? What's it cost?

I have a gun book written by a Spaniard that suggests that current Spanish police and military units often use H-K arms. But it covers a wide range of US and Euro guns, too. Barnes & Noble often has such gun titles in stock in the bargain books. They can be very informative, as US writers seldom discuss Euro guns.
 
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I have the older astra's, stars and llama pistols in my collection. The astra 400/1921 and the astra 600/43 remind me of a mack truck built very strong. The stars are 1911 copies in some cases and so is the llama. I like shooting the 9mm largo round too. Its still $149 for 1,000rds. All these pistols are very popular in europe. The astra company just opened up in switzerland. There offering a new 1911.
 
"The Llama (or Ruby) snub mentioned above may be the Martial Model. Sometimes, older editions of Stoeger's Shooter's Bible will list models, and you can see the then-current prices."

My Llama .38 Special revolver was not a Martial, I think those came along later. I bought it about 1968. I remember it set me back $60, new and in the box. I do remember that there was a Llama sticker on the box, which was pasted over a Ruby label. I sold it only because I thought it to be too large for a snubbie. I think the firing pin was in the frame instead of on the hammer, one departure from the S&W design.
 
It was very common in the Spanish firearms trade to use Roman Numerals on the gun parts as they went through the mfg process. An assembly number of sorts.
Easy read by even less educated workers and easily applied with nothing more than the flat blade edge of a small chisel & hammer or a scribe.

Parts were kept together as they were fitted and marked w/the numeral. All on a tray usually with a 'master' Numeral punch marked into it.
The parts on that tray all received that same numeral.

When the gun was complete & serial numbered and the tray is empty of parts,,the tray goes back to the beginning point in the mfg process and a new set of parts begins it's trip thru, again receiving the tray's numeral.

The numeral is random at best. It's only function is as an assembly number to keep the fitted parts together during mfg'r.

I've seen them most often on Llama and Star,,not quite as often on Astra for some reason.

The same Roman Numeral type matching system seems to be used pistol grips made in Mexico and SA. That would stand to reason if it was a Spanish tradition in the trades of some sort, but it is only my guess.

I haven't seen it on Spanish mfg pistols made much after the 1960's.
It's found on a lot of Spanish made shotguns also from the same era.
Just their way of doing things in the cottage type industry they had and continued into the factory setting for quite a time also.
 

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