Steel cases the problem?

[beaverislander]

I just loaded and shot 48 once fired steel cased 357's yesterday and had to rap the extractor quite hard with the palm of my hand to get the fired cartridges to release from the cylinder. Is it because I loaded up steel cases or could something else be going on? If it is the steel cases, is there a solution to the problem or do you just pitch them?

627PC
158gr LSWC
14,14.5, and 15 gr 2400 (happened with all 3 loads)
CCI 500 primers
Federal 357 mag steel cases

Thanks.

 

[Milton]

I don't know about steel cased .357's but I tried steel cased .45 acp's once and they too stuck due to the steel expanding into each chamber tightly .Brass seems to expand then shrink back a little as the metals behave differently in the way they are being used.We got away with reloading 45 steel by spraying a light lube on each case to ease extraction.I will tell you if you overdo the lube amount or use something too slick you will get other problems with rear case thrust against the recoil shield.

 

[n4zov]

I am not aware of any revolver that was designed to use steel case ammunition, and steel cases are not intended to be reloaded. IMHO using steel cases ammunition is a poor way to save money unless you are shooting it in a weapon designed specifically for it - the AK series for example.

 

[Treeman]

Your post says Federal .357 mag steel case........to my knowledge Federal has never produced a steel case for .357 magnum. Perhaps you have nickeled cases? Are they bright and shiny "silver" colored?
Your charges of 2400 are heavy-not excessive according to many data sources but they are top end loads. Have you fired those charges with that bullet in that gun previously? If not your work up probably should have started with 12.5-13.0 grains. Is that a cast bullet or swaged? if swaged it is bound to be soft and high pressure loads with soft bullets can actually increase pressure due to extreme obturation of the bullet base (Makes a more perfect gas seal and may also increase bore friction--though softies tend to just strip and lead up the barrel at that point...but then you have less room for the next bullet and the whole cycle repeats) If it is cast.. How hard? What diameter?

 

[s&wchad]

I don't shoot steel case ammunition, but is it possible you had a fouling ring in the chambers from shooting .38 Specials? That could cause extraction problems with any cases.

 

[beaverislander]

The cases very well be nickel as they are indeed bright, shiney, and silver colored. Somewhere I got the notion that they were referred to as steel cases but maybe they aren't. I did buy them as once fired, and just assumed that they could be reloaded. I thought that they did not hold up to as many reloadings as brass did, but I didn't give this problem a thought.

Did I mention that I am NEW to reloading????? These are the first reloads that I have made for the .357, so no, I haven't fired these bullets from this gun before.

The bullets are from Missouri Bullet Company, .357 Action, 358 Diameter, 158gr SWC, Brinell 18, (also says optimized for Magnum Velocities.)

As far as the loads being fairly heavy, I did quite a bit of reading, and it seemed that those three load were pretty common, and good accuracy was obtained by different folks for each of them. I did find that the 14.5gr was much better in this 627PC.

I'm beginning to get the idea that I should start over with brass and chaulk this up as another learning experiance.

 

[canoeguy]

Never heard of steel .357 Magnum cases, the steel case ammunition I have seen has been Russian .45 ACP (Wolf), 7.62 X 39, some 9 MM Mak, all of it non reloadable Berdan primed. You almost certainly have some nice nickel .357 cases, reloadable many times. The sticky extraction you are experiencing is a sign of high pressure in your revolver, start over again with a mid range or minimum load, then work up to a load that works good in your revolver without signs of high pressure, like flattened primers and sticky extraction.

 

[beaverislander]

I don't shoot steel case ammunition, but is it possible you had a fouling ring in the chambers from shooting .38 Specials? That could cause extraction problems with any cases.

I was having problems with the bullets dropping all the way down in the cylinders and smith-crazy suggested that maybe there was a buildup from firing 38's which I had been doing. I did a thourough cleaning which took care of the problem, so I doubt that this is the case.

 

[s&wchad]

If the cartridges won't just drop in, you had some serious build up. Typically, the cartridges seat just fine, but they swell around the ring that forms at the case mouth and cause sticky extraction. The ring can be difficult to fully remove. I typically soak the cylinder overnight in solvent and then go at it with a bronze brush. I've heard of people flaring the mouth of a .357 case and using it to scrape out the ring, but I haven't tried that.

I'm not crazy about loading nickel plated cases, but they work just fine. I've seen nickel flake off while resizing rifle cartridges and I think it's a little harder on the dies. I'm sure they're not steel, but test one with a magnet to be sure.

 

[Jawfish]

I've shot 1000's of Wolf (Russian) 45 acp steel cases in my 1911's. You have to lube them up good in order to size them correctly. I've never tried any steel cases for revolvers.

 

[Steve C]

As already mentioned, Federal never made any .357 mag steel case ammo so your cases are most likely nickle plated brass which is every bit as good for reloading as any brass case.

If you are getting sticky cases the most likely cause is high pressure with a dirty or rough cylinder chamber being the next likely cause.

Your loads are beyond start level even for jacketed bullets and rather warm for loading with a lead bullet. Depending upon hardness lead will usually seal better in the bore than a jacketed bullet thus increasing pressure. Lead also shoots faster with equal loads than a jacketed bullet. 15.0 grs of 2400 is absolute maximum in most data for jacketed bullets and depending upon the bullet is well over the maximum for lead. In Lymans data, for example a 155gr LSWC #358156 has a maximum load with 2400 at 14.0grs.

14.0grs of 2400, CCI 500 primer and a 158gr JACKETED bullet will duplicate factory jacketed loads at 1,245 fps from a 4" barrel according to my chronograph. 13.0grs with a 158gr SWC cast lead bullets do the same.

I'd suggest dropping your load to 13.0 grs and see if your problem doesn't dissapear. Work up to 14.0grs IF you want maximum velocity but since you've already had case sticking problems at 14.0 grs I'd say that somewhere under 14.0grs will be maximum in your pistol using your particular lead 158gr bullet.

 

[beaverislander]

Thank you

Thank you for all of the replies.
I spent several hours cleaning and brushing the cylinder today, and the spent cartridges are still "sticky" so I will reduce the load as suggested and try again next week. I have to go away for a few days and it's driving me nuts cause I'd like to load em up and go back out tomorrow.
I now feel it must be a pressure issue, as the cylinder looks like new and the spent cartridges are still to tight.
On to plan B!

Thanks again to all who offered suggestions.

 

[fredj338]

As the other noted, you are reloading nickel plated brass cases. All you need to do to verify if a case is steel or not (never seen any in 357mag) is run a magnet over them. Your sticking is likely the load being a bit hot &/or the cyl a bit rough. I'm not sure where you got your load data, but those are warm. You DO NOT load lead bullets w/ the same charge as jacketed. Yo uneed to reduce the charge at least 5%.The 14gr load should be fine, the 15gr load is pushing it. Some rev. just have sticky extraction, usually a polishing if the inside of the chambers helps.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Beaver,
This is a perfect example of why you work loads back up when changing just one component. Primer, case, bullet or whatever, requires that folks start over developing their load. Not every firearm is the same and even time tested loads in one need to be checked in another.

Away from the point but I have used steel cases in 45ACP many, many times with no ill affect in both my M625JM and PT1911. Those loads were at the bottom of the charts for loads though, target rounds. While your cases seem to be nickel plated, if you do run across some steel ones don't be afraid to use them if they are boxer primed. Just remember the "rule" stated above, start over developing your load.

Case volume may be just a bit different causing high end loads to be over pressure in those cases. You may get a win/win if you get the performance of 14gr with 13gr because case volume is less!

 

[WILDCATT]

sticky

new shooters tend to load to max.he said he got the loads of the web,not out of a book.I have seen posts asking what the was the most
load you could shoot.I never load to top I dont need to prove any thing.and target loads work for me.