Steve Irwin Nature Fakery
- Thread starter Texas Star
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Thunderhawk88
Member
+1 If that was what they needed to do to get the scenes they needed for the show that's cool with me. It was a very entertaining and infomative show.
OP
Texas Star
US Veteran
Please discuss McDonald's in another thread.
I never said that Irwin shouldn't be concerned about snakes. I just said that he may have manipulated the Aussie ones so that they couldn't respond in a normal manner, misleading the public. That may lead some viewers to take foolish chances with snakes. People are people, especially younger viewers, who often think Steve was a saint, and want to emulate him. Many wildlife shows lead the public to think that animals are innocent and fun to handle.
When he went to the US or Africa, the available snakes behaved normally, and he was obviously more careful and a little shocked at the aggressiveness of the African species. Of course, if one insists on trying to bully a snake to get "good TV" from it, it may have other ideas...The red spitting cobras repeatedly sprayed his eyes (he had protection) and other snakes tried to bite, especially a black mamba that would have tagged him right between the legs, had he been a few inches shorter. He admitted that he was "sweating bullets" over that, before he had it bagged.
He also went up into trees after a green mamba and a boomslang! That almost requires a death wish.
!
Personally, I think the man was an adrenaline junkie, who got excited through taking absurd risks. He also seemed to have drunk far too much coffee!
I enjoyed his shows, if they seemed a little overboard at times. I admire his widow and kids, and hope that they succeed in carrying on in his footsteps.
I am NOT trying to ruin the image of a good man, who entertained millions. I just want to establish whether his Aussie snakes were operating at less than normal capacity. Most nature shows where the host has to be at close quarters with an animal do that. I prefer not to comment on Marty Stouffer here, other than to say that I will no longer watch his programs.
Specifically, I was asking if anyone knew for a fact that Steve Irwin chilled his snakes, and could cite a reference that I could pass on to my friend. So far, we have three pages, with just one valid response. Which I really appreciate, by the way.
Thanks, dave b.Good answer.
T-Star
I never said that Irwin shouldn't be concerned about snakes. I just said that he may have manipulated the Aussie ones so that they couldn't respond in a normal manner, misleading the public. That may lead some viewers to take foolish chances with snakes. People are people, especially younger viewers, who often think Steve was a saint, and want to emulate him. Many wildlife shows lead the public to think that animals are innocent and fun to handle.
When he went to the US or Africa, the available snakes behaved normally, and he was obviously more careful and a little shocked at the aggressiveness of the African species. Of course, if one insists on trying to bully a snake to get "good TV" from it, it may have other ideas...The red spitting cobras repeatedly sprayed his eyes (he had protection) and other snakes tried to bite, especially a black mamba that would have tagged him right between the legs, had he been a few inches shorter. He admitted that he was "sweating bullets" over that, before he had it bagged.
He also went up into trees after a green mamba and a boomslang! That almost requires a death wish.
Personally, I think the man was an adrenaline junkie, who got excited through taking absurd risks. He also seemed to have drunk far too much coffee!
I enjoyed his shows, if they seemed a little overboard at times. I admire his widow and kids, and hope that they succeed in carrying on in his footsteps.
I am NOT trying to ruin the image of a good man, who entertained millions. I just want to establish whether his Aussie snakes were operating at less than normal capacity. Most nature shows where the host has to be at close quarters with an animal do that. I prefer not to comment on Marty Stouffer here, other than to say that I will no longer watch his programs.
Specifically, I was asking if anyone knew for a fact that Steve Irwin chilled his snakes, and could cite a reference that I could pass on to my friend. So far, we have three pages, with just one valid response. Which I really appreciate, by the way.
Thanks, dave b.Good answer.
T-Star
OP
Texas Star
US Veteran
Marlin Perkins has been mentioned. Marlin was around longer than you might think. I've read a medical report of his having been bitten on one finger by ONE fang of a Gaboon viper, in 1929!
To sum up, he nearly died. It was a very close call, even with use of antivenin.
Something distracted him for a mere second, as he was cleaning the snake's enclosure in a zoo. He got hit. Had he had a full bite, he would have been a goner, for sure.
Maybe the memory of that, and his advanced age, was why he had Jim Fowler and Stan Brock take most of the risks by the time he was on TV many years later.
Another interesting snake bit...I talked to the reptile supervisor at a major zoo. He told me that they planned to trade off a Black and White Forest Cobra (Naja melanoleuca), because it was smart for a snake, and wanted to bite. It would feint to get a handler to counter with the snake hook. Then, it would change direction and strike at the handler. It was only a matter of time before someone received a serious envenomation, probably fatal.
Overall, it isn't a really super idea to handle dangerous snakes, if you don't have to.
T-Star
To sum up, he nearly died. It was a very close call, even with use of antivenin.
Something distracted him for a mere second, as he was cleaning the snake's enclosure in a zoo. He got hit. Had he had a full bite, he would have been a goner, for sure.
Maybe the memory of that, and his advanced age, was why he had Jim Fowler and Stan Brock take most of the risks by the time he was on TV many years later.
Another interesting snake bit...I talked to the reptile supervisor at a major zoo. He told me that they planned to trade off a Black and White Forest Cobra (Naja melanoleuca), because it was smart for a snake, and wanted to bite. It would feint to get a handler to counter with the snake hook. Then, it would change direction and strike at the handler. It was only a matter of time before someone received a serious envenomation, probably fatal.
Overall, it isn't a really super idea to handle dangerous snakes, if you don't have to.
T-Star
OP
Texas Star
US Veteran
Originally posted by wildfiresrozes:
Honestly, does it matter? Tragically,the man is dead, leaving behind a beautiful wife and daughter. He brought joy to many people, young and old. Chilled reptiles or not, he taught whoever would listen about the creatures in question. I mean, if I was educating the masses about a deadly reptile, I think I would want slower ones, too.
Shouldn't criticize the deceased, especially when they were such a positive influence....its just bad juju, imo.
Steve left a son, too, Robert. And I think that you are confusing juju with karma.
T-Star
wildfiresrozes
Member
Yes, I had forgotten about their son.
And no, I used the word I wanted to use. Juju. No mistake, that's the way I chose to phrase it.
And no, I used the word I wanted to use. Juju. No mistake, that's the way I chose to phrase it.
wildfiresrozes
Member
Originally posted by rimfired:
I used to go to the movies and get Ju-Ju-Bees. Hard as rock small filling pullers. Flavorfull little nuggets.
OP
Texas Star
US Veteran
Then, you are inferring that I have purposely practiced witchcraft against the Irwins! That is absurd, and wholly untrue. Some members of this forum leave me really uneasy.
What on Earth prompted you to make such an accusation?
T-Star
mjr
Member
I'm getting that, too--just lately.
mafuta54
Member
I met Marlon at the outspan (?) hotel in Kenya back in 1976 when I was there. I got a picture of him and I for my keeps sake!Originally posted by norad45:
Kinda makes me wonder how many scenes in the old "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" back in the '70's might have been staged? Nah, old Marlon Perkins would never have tolerated that!
I loved that show.
S/W - Lifer
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I (and a half dozen others) used to do a similar show for a major zoo in the midwest. Inside the zoo was easy as the exhibits were used for taping.
The shows done in the wild were all fake as reptiles were placed before taping. Having a TV crew follow you around until you found a specific species could take weeks. We just put everything under a rock or log, "discovered" it when the cameras were rolling and went on with the presentation. My recollection is that venomous animals were never used this way. Nothing we used was ever chilled but they were kept in bags or vented coolers and were disoriented by the process.
Big constrictors and crocs were the most dangerous and there was nothing fake about it. You had to be on your toes when working them. TV lighting is quite hot and aggrivated the animals, making them harder to work. This was especially true when the crew turned on the lights and then took a half-hour coffee break.
The simple truth is that when you get close enough often enough someone is going to get hurt. Once in a while someone dies.
The shows done in the wild were all fake as reptiles were placed before taping. Having a TV crew follow you around until you found a specific species could take weeks. We just put everything under a rock or log, "discovered" it when the cameras were rolling and went on with the presentation. My recollection is that venomous animals were never used this way. Nothing we used was ever chilled but they were kept in bags or vented coolers and were disoriented by the process.
Big constrictors and crocs were the most dangerous and there was nothing fake about it. You had to be on your toes when working them. TV lighting is quite hot and aggrivated the animals, making them harder to work. This was especially true when the crew turned on the lights and then took a half-hour coffee break.
The simple truth is that when you get close enough often enough someone is going to get hurt. Once in a while someone dies.
norad45
Member
Originally posted by mafuta54:
I met Marlon at the outspan (?) hotel in Kenya back in 1976 when I was there. I got a picture of him and I for my keeps sake!Originally posted by norad45:
Kinda makes me wonder how many scenes in the old "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" back in the '70's might have been staged? Nah, old Marlon Perkins would never have tolerated that!
I loved that show.
Turns out Marlin was indeed accused of fakery at least one time in his career, and took serious umbrage:
"Because Walt Disney had fabricated footage of a mass suicide of lemmings in its film White Wilderness, CBC (at that time) journalist Bob McKeown asked Marlin Perkins if he had done the same. Perkins, then in his eighties, 'firmly asked for the camera to be turned off, then punched a shocked McKeown in the face.'"
Marlin 1, Journalist 0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin_Perkins
wildfiresrozes
Member
Originally posted by Texas Star:
Then, you are inferring that I have purposely practiced witchcraft against the Irwins! That is absurd, and wholly untrue. Some members of this forum leave me really uneasy.
What on Earth prompted you to make such an accusation?Do you make the same claim against the many who have posted negative things about Col. Askins here in recent threads?
T-Star
First of all, I was not trying to disrespect you or your thread, was stating my opinion on the whole situation. If you wanted an exact answer to a specific question, maybe you should have worded it that way instead of making the post full of your opinions, too. Everyone has stated their opinions, but you ruffle up at the ones that totally go against what you are saying. Again, no disrespect meant...everyone is entitled to their own opinions on here, worded however they wish to word it (within Lees rules, of course
That being said, Juju has nothing to do with witchcraft. So if you want to criticize the way that I talk/type, at least come back with facts. Although I am no expert, the craft/withcraft pertains to Wiccan or Pagan rituals...where as Juju is from African culture. More specifically, West African...and can also be referenced from 'Voodoo', which is originally out of Africa, but seats itself in our deepest of southern states, as well. Also in South American culture. 'Bad juju' is somewhat similar to 'bad karma'....similar, not the same. Karma is from Buddhist who view life as one big Karmatic ride....what you do in this life, reflects what will happen to you in your next. Karma is not a small daily thing as you might have learned from 'My name is Earl', it is a spiritual view of this life and afterlife.
Juju is a bad vibe/feeling/haunting/ect that one would get from a place, person, town, woods, ect. If you taunt the dead, bad juju rubs off on you...your energy, aura, life in general, filled with bad juju. So NO, I did not insinuate that you practiced any sort of craft OR magic against the Irwins...simply stated that taunting the dead is bad juju. A bad feeling, stemming from the dead. Now, I think the new Sports Illistrated is out, so surely you have better things to be doing. I know I sure do. Work, parenting, cleaning toilets, you know, anything but this.
1. bad juju
Haunted by a bad vibe or aura. Can be used as a noun or an adjective.
Now that place had some bad juju.
In answer to a question about what someone thought of a person place or thing one could answer, "bad juju".
http://www.urbandictionary.com....php?term=bad%20juju
Mickey D
Member
I can say the same...
Let's not be rude to any members here and respect their opinons as such.
Lenshappy
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I used to go to the movies and get Ju-Ju-Bees. Hard as rock small filling pullers. Flavorfull little nuggets.
I know it as fact, that dentists
used to supply movie theaters
with these -- so many people
would break their teeth on them.
If this is so, maybe you folks shouldn't read their posts...think of it as TV or Radio...turn the knob and go somewhere else.
sipowicz
Member
I used to call my stuttering friend Bernie Weinsten Ju-ju.
rewster
Member
As usual ! A good un !!!
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Originally posted by keith44spl:
Originally posted by wildfiresrozes:
Now that place had some bad juju.Hell, you must have met the Vodoo Princess.**********************************************************************
I been to some of them places
Outstanding post!
Many Thanks,
Su Amigo,
Dave
<span class="ev_code_RED">Warning-way off the wall thread drift</span>
Remember those old Tarzan movies and the Ramar of the Jungle TV shows when the gun bearers wouold throw down their stuff and run away screaming "Bad JuJu Bwana-no go there"
OP
Texas Star
US Veteran
Originally posted by CAJUNLAWYER:
Originally posted by keith44spl:
Originally posted by wildfiresrozes:
Now that place had some bad juju.Hell, you must have met the Vodoo Princess.**********************************************************************
I been to some of them places
Outstanding post!
Many Thanks,
Su Amigo,
Dave
<span class="ev_code_RED">Warning-way off the wall thread drift</span>
Remember those old Tarzan movies and the Ramar of the Jungle TV shows when the gun bearers wouold throw down their stuff and run away screaming "Bad JuJu Bwana-no go there"
Cajun Lawyer-
Oh, I recall Ramar (Jon Hall) and his friend the professor (Ray Montgomery?) very well. As a kid, that was one of my favorite TV shows. I loved Ramar's Mannlicher rifle, which was also used by another of my boyhood heroes, Dr. Roy Chapman Andrews. I eventually bought one, a carbine in 8X56mm.
I found a DVD at a half price store recently, and it has three episodes of the TV show.
I tried to make out the revolvers in the shows, and think one was was a Colt New Service, maybe the M-1917 variant. May possibly be an Official Police, but it looked too big, and the frame contours are slightly different.
In general, juju refers to African magic, usually of a highly negative order.
And I don't sneer at it, either. At the time of his death, Robert C. Ruark was Travel Editor for, "Playboy." He was a widely experienced hunter, and the ONLY US journalist and popular author who has been honest about African politics. His novel, "Something of Value" is well worth seeking out. Don't settle for watching the movie version, which was watered down, and which stars black activist Sidney Potier along with Rock Hudson.
Anyway, Ruark and a white hunter friend, Harry Selby, I think, were hunting one day and were told that a local witch doctor could help them find an elephant with big ivory. I suppose they thought it was a lark, so they paid the guy, and he went into his medicine hut and made the smoke and rolled the bones.
He emerged to tell the bwanas that if they went to a certain place at a certain time, they would find three big elephants and which one they would want to shoot. They would see no other elephants on that whole safari. He had seen this in his hallucenogenic trance. The way the "medicine bones" rolled also told him things, he said.
A little doubtful, they took his advice. They saw exactly the same elephants that he had described, and shot the big one. And they saw no others on that trip! Ruark wrote about this adventure in a 1965 issue of, "Playboy", shortly before he died. The article had a lot of nifty safari gear, too, before the Hefners went anti-gun, to be in fashion in California.
Of course, sometimes, witch doctors err. One had a vision that they should kill all Zulu cattle, which would be replaced with magical cattle from their version of Heaven. The tribe nearly starved, and that wizard was killed, if memory serves.
If you would like to read some interesting facts about voodoo, which is different from other African withcraft practices, get the late Ian Fleming's novel, "Live and Let Die." It was written in the early 1950's, before PC became the rule. He could be much more candid in what he wrote. He used a traveller's book to have James Bond review the practice of voodoo, which his opponent, the first great Negro criminal was into, to control other blacks. Very interesting read. Be sure to read the Ode to the Drum Witch...
Some members here obviously have difficulty in reading comprehension, so I hasten to repeat that this was outside data that Fleming inserted into his book, not his own fiction. He wasn't making that stuff up; just quoting it.
The fact that many still believe in it is more than a little disturbing. I imagine that such cities as New Orleans have active voodoo cults.
Did anyone else here see the episode of, "The Lost World", where the Voodoo Priestess kidnapped Marguerite, Veronica, and Lord Roxton?
That was a hoot, but a scary episode. Fortunately, Prof. Challenger and the American reporter, Ned Malone, saved the others. And Roxton was pretending to be drugged, and got busy with the machete that he had been given to slay Marg. and Vee. Voodoo Queen's outfit was disliked by most women fans. I rather liked it!
That show also had a good episode where another white queen was using a cave with halucinatory fungus in it to create horrible visions. Her own follwers killed her after the explorers found a way to use that against her. Good show!
Saw a really creepy episode of, "Silk Stalkings", where a male voodoo cult leader made some bad juju to control the woman he wanted.
Real voodoo and other African bad magical practices are more than a little alarming. Some people really believe in that stuff, and may be a few fish short on their stringers. To many blacks and Hispanics, this craft is part of their culture. Even some whites seem to be involved.
I am hoping that Wildfirerozes isn't one of them! But I'm going to see if my gun dealer has any silver bullets, just in case, and I'm getting a silver cross, too! What's good for werewolves may work on other bad guys trying to use the spiritual world for evil.
Anyone know which caliber of wooden cross I should get, in case a vampire shows up? I just don't know who all Rozie's friends may be.
All I know for sure is that she doesn't like me looking at the SI Swimsuit Issue...Of course, what model Ana Beatriz Barros does with her sultry eyes in some issues of that publication and in her appearances for Victoria's Secret is definitely some kind of magic. Ana Beatriz is unquestionably an enchantress!
T-Star
