Sticky extraction with reloads in a 544

[Nightowl]

Recently bought a 544 that had never been fired. I bought it to shoot and shoot it I have! Bought Redding Pro loading dies. Should have bought the regular dies, but anyway. I am having sticky extraction with my reloads. Factory rounds fall out after firing. I have the sizing die set down to the shell plate as per directions, bullets are MBC coated .428, brass is under the reloading manual stated length, mild crimp. However, after firing the reloads, it requires a strong push to extract them. After firing the first reloads of 7.5 grains of Unique, I had to use a hammer to give them a little tap to break them free. Not bad, just a little tap. I went down to 7.0 this week (just .2 over starting load) and I did not have to use the little hammer, but still required a strong hand effort to extract. Once started they came right out. Oh, yes, clean gun!
I have never had this problem before, except in one .357 that required polishing the chambers. But, I have never reloaded the 44-40 before.
Loaded rounds seat freely, so I don't know where to go from here.
Any body have experience with this in a 544?

Fired cases will still seat without resizing

 

[biku324]

I've had 2 544s now and no similar problem even using 11 grains of Longshot and .429" 200 grain JHP, very roughly equivalent to 9.5 grains of Unique. I use the Lyman Reloading data for Group 2 44-40 rifle loads as a guide. 7.5 grains of Unique should NOT be a problem - I've run 10.0 in a batch of 200 grain JHPs, but the 544 didn't shoot that well with it and I was starting to get slightly sticky extraction and primers flattened just a bit more than with lighter loads.

I'd start by checking seating depth, case length, and if all is within spec, switch primers, and if no joy, switch powders.

 

[biku324]

Let me add that I have never used coated bullets.

 

[biku324]

Last thought - if there is any case lube at all on the loaded rounds, pressures can spike.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I would also look at the inside of the chamber. You should see where it goes to a smaller diameter. is that reduction past the end of your brass.

One other thing to check. use tape or a wax pencil and number the chambers. Fire one round at a time in each chamber and feel the extraction of each chamber. If some are "sticky" that is your problem. I would do the one at a time test, three separate times before deciding that isn't the problem. I had to finish ream the chambers on a number of revolvers!

Ivan

 

[biku324]

^^^I learn something new here daily.

 

[Nightowl]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I loaded 50 Mag Tech brass yesterday and about 24 Winchester cases. I noticed that the sizing die only sized the case until about 3/8 above the rim and the mouth only about a 1/4 from the mouth. The Mag Tech cases sometimes stick right at the rim when inserting loaded cases into each charge hole. The Winchester cases seem to slide right in.
So, I decided to measure the case width right in front of the rim, where the Magtech cases seemed to be sticking. The Magtech cases measured .464-.465, whereas the Winchester cases measured .4625-.463. New unloaded Starline went .463. This area is not resized by the sizing die. I'm thinking this could be the issue.
I will see how they shoot on Thursday.

 

[2152hq]

The Redding Pro loading dies and the Pro Comp loading dies are made to be used in the Dillon progressive machines. (..and possibly other progressives that flare the case mouth on the powder drop tube)
(The Pro Comp set has a micrometer bullet seater adj.,,the Pro does not. That's the only difference betw the two sets)

What makes the Pro series dies 'Progressive' loading machine dies is the fact that they do not have a flaring die in the set.
The Dillon flares/expands the case in the powder drop (tube?). I don't think the Hornady LocknLoad flares the case mouth on the powder drop. So if these dies were used in that press, you'd have to add in a flare die to the rotation in that progressive.
These dies are made for that (those?) types of presses.
If you use them in another press and really if you are using lead bullets, you should put an extra die into rotation to flare/bell the case mouth to avoid collapsing or bulging when seating the bullet.

Just a guess, but perhaps the seating operation w/o a flaring to the case mouth is causing some damage to the brass (mouth, neck, shoulder,,it's very thin on the 44-40) and that could be part of the problem.

I think I recall reading that the pro series uses 2 carbide rings for the bottle neck 44-40. One to size the body, one for the neck, all inside the one size die.
If they are not sizing the case properly (reaching down far enough) the case will certainly not fit back into some or all of the chambers .

Just my thoughts.

 

[biku324]

Glad you made that sizing/length connection.

In case you ever need heavy bullet data, I load 6.5 grains of Unique or 7.2 grains of Longshot behind 240 LSWC for excellent accuracy at 825-875 fps. This load shoots 4" higher at 25 yards than 200 grain LRN at 900-950 fps.

 

[Nightowl]

I'm using a Dillon 550B, and the case mouth is being flared just enough to seat the bullet, and a separate crimp die. Light crimp, I only messed up one case, but I had removed the crimp die to check the adjustment on the sizing die and forgot to re adjust the crimping die. The cartridge is not too much messed up and I still inserts in the chamber so I will shoot it and see if it expands to normal.
They are steel dies, lightly lubed with Hornady One Shot. All the Winchester finished cartridges slide in and out fine, the Magtech sometimes require a nudge to fully seat. I suspect that is the problem. When extracting, I can tell the stickiness is at the base of the cartridge, not at the mouth or body, as just a little tap breaks them loose.

Thanks again for keeping me going!

 

[biku324]

If you use Lee Case Trimmers, I have a spare length gauge and lock ring I'd be happy to send gratis...

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Pre Covid, Redding customer service was great! I bet they will replace your sizing die with a die that actually sizes the case properly! Post Covid shut down, getting hold of them has been problematic!

Years ago I hade an RCBS FL size 264 Win Mag die that was over spec. but problems only happened on brass fire in other guns. (Probably a mismarked Neck size die) But RCBS was on it like a duck on a June bug!

Ivan

 

[biku324]

If you get a chance, you might order up some Starlune brass - it's stronger than the Winchester or Remington for sure. Dunno about Magtech.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Magtech is on the thin side. +1 for Starline! The older PMC I have is pretty good too.

Ivan