Stock finish ?

[Racegunner]

Sorry if this has been discussed before;
What did (1960s — 1980s) S&W coat their wood grips/stocks with, urethane, varnish or are they oiled and left shinny?
I've used TruOil on a set and it turned out nice, but I wonder if Minwax polyurethane spray with make them as dark.
Thanks - Brian

 

[Racegunner]

Sorry if this has been discussed before;
What did (1960s — 1980s) S&W coat their wood grips/stocks with, urethane, varnish or are they oiled and left shinny?
I've used TruOil on a set and it turned out nice, but I wonder if Minwax polyurethane spray with make them as dark.
Thanks - Brian

 

[Racegunner]

Nobody knows?

 

[jeremyws1]

That is a good question. I've always thought it was poly-something. Whatever it is, it is ugly when it starts flaking.

 

[Racegunner]

So I can guess it is polyurethane, but what about in the 1950s ... varnish? lacquer?

 

[Gunhacker]

S&W used a simple (plain) oil type finish up to 1960, then a spray oil varnish up until 1968 when a spray Polyurethane was phased in and used until S&W stopped making their own grips in the late 80's.

All of my grip refinishing has been with TruOil (which is a polymerized linseed oil), as I like the degree of control you have with it's application and the results... you can make it satin, gloss or high gloss.

Minwax has a wipe on polyurethane finish that looks promising for use on grip refinishing, I've used it on wood table tops and I really like how it looks, not as much of a "plastic" looking appearance like the brush on stuff. I haven't tried it out on grips yet.

Shading/coloring/staining wood is an art into itself, the variety of methods are as varied as there are types of wood.

Plain oil darkens wood (wood absorbs oil and is the reason why pigmented stains are oil based) but brush on polyurethane is not absorbed and sits on the wood surface, it will not darken wood like oil will.

Unless Poly is thinned out so it's water thin (like the Minwax wiping poly) it doesn't penetrate into the wood fiber. That's why the wipe on poly has made me curious.

Lacquer was never used, it is not a durable enough finish to stand up to the rigors of gun cleaner/solvent/oils.

 

[Oryguner]

Gunhacker,
I think you are on the right track with the wipe-on poly from MinWax. I've used it with success on a few sets of grips but I used a detail spray gun to apply rather than wipe-on. The N frame combats in the pic were really rough and dirty when I found them but now I would be hard pressed to tell them from a set of originals except I think maybe my re-finish is just a bit.....better than original!

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I've had good luck useing a very light coat of tru-oil, letting dry and applying another till the finish I desire is there.

 

[Racegunner]

Oryguner;
Did you find that Minwax wipe on (sprayed in your case) darkened and brought out the grain or did you use a stain first.
I've used Pro-Custom Oil from Brownell's too. It applies like TruOil but is supposed to be more durable.

Oh, one more question; Did S&W ever use any stain before the finish coat? I assume they did not...

I really like the look of aged Rosewood grips when they get really dark from sunlight (and probably some gun oil as well).

-Brian

 

[Oryguner]

Originally posted by Racegunner:
Oryguner;
Did you find that Minwax wipe on (sprayed in your case) darkened and brought out the grain or did you use a stain first.

Did S&W ever use any stain before the finish coat?

-Brian

Racegunner,
I don't think the MinWax darkened or brought out the grain any more than any other clear finish would but I think the poly will be a more durable finish than any of the oil types. Prior to applying finish, I did use a bit of MinWax walnut stain to darken the grips slightly and tone down the orange of the Goncola Aves. I have never seen evidence that S&W has ever used stain on their grips.

 

[E Z MUNNY]

Are you possibly thinking of 'HELMSMAN' Spar Urethane by Minwax? I use this all of the time and I love it. It will darken the wood a little but not much. Its available in spray cans or bulk (pint, quart, gallon) and in satin, semi-gloss or gloss finish. To me it combines the best of everything because it goes on easily, dries quickly, is tough and durable and does not yellow with age. It is also waterproof. I have used it on rifle and shotgun stocks, handgun grips and outdoor oak furniture..

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Originally posted by E Z MUNNY:
Are you possibly thinking of 'HELMSMAN' Spar Urethane by Minwax? I use this all of the time and I love it. It will darken the wood a little but not much. Its available in spray cans or bulk (pint, quart, gallon) and in satin, semi-gloss or gloss finish. To me it combines the best of everything because it goes on easily, dries quickly, is tough and durable and does not yellow with age. It is also waterproof. I have used it on rifle and shotgun stocks, handgun grips and outdoor oak furniture..

+1

 

[H Richard]

I've used Tru-Oil several times, putting up to 7 coats on, letting dry 24 hrs in between. "Lightly" wiping down with 0000 Steel Wool then tack rag between each coat. After last coat, let hang and dry for 7 days, then rub down with a solution of Rotten Stone in a little mineral oil, then buff out and wax. You can get a soft glowing finish.

 

[Gunhacker]

Oryguner... did you use the wipe-on poly straight out of the can or did you need to thin it down to get the right viscosity for it to go through the sprayer?

Nice job!

Here's something else I've been wondering about too. In one of the Brownell's
"Gunsmith Kinks" books, there is a discussion from gunsmiths (that have done it) about using a highly thinned down mixture of Brownell's "Acraglas" stock bedding epoxy compound as a spray finish for wood stocks.

Reading that sure made me wonder if that isn't something like what Remington put on their model 700 rifle stocks and 870/1100 shotguns in the 70's & 80's... you almost have to dissolve that stuff in acid to strip it off.

Racegunner, I don't think S&W stained their grips per se... that would have added an additional step and more time in the manufacturing process. But I highly suspect that they may have at one point employed a tinted (color)varnish top coat, which is a common practice in woodworking & furniture building to even out the tone of mixed wood (sap & heart) or even darken it a bit or add contrast to the grain.

There's been times when I've "washed" the topcoat off from from a grip, with something like Formby's Refinisher, that I'm refinishing when there is no wood damage and all it needs is a fresh finish.

Formby's is made to not wash out the stain from wood, what comes off the grips that I've done is a walnut colored liquid and the wood underneath does not look like any stain has ever been absorbed by the wood. That's why I suspect the use of varnish top coat that's been slightly tinted.

 

[Oryguner]

Originally posted by Gunhacker:
Oryguner... did you use the wipe-on poly straight out of the can or did you need to thin it down to get the right viscosity for it to go through the sprayer?

Gunhacker,
As far as I can recall, I used the MinWax straight from the can.
Re: your comments on tinted finishes. I wanted to "touch up" a nick in a walnut stock on an M1A. Sanding lightly only made the blemish bigger and I ended up having to redo the whole stock. Springfield had used a tinted spray on finish of some sort and the refinished (natural) stock was a much lighter color but better looking to my eye.

Same thing with the grips shown. They were a very dark walnut with light colored scratches when I bought them. Stripping the rest of the finish and sanding revealed the nicely figured wood beneath. (Also redone with MinWax) Makes you wonder....Why hide all that natural beauty under a tinted finish?

 

[Racegunner]

Great info, guys! Thanks.
Just curious if any of you share the opinion or have noticed that the left side of the stock usually has better grain than that starboard side? I've seen some great grain on G. Alves or Rosewood only to turn the gun over and discover the look of cardboard on the right side. I often wonder if that has anything to do with the way they lay in the presentation case, if this was a planned thing by S&W?

 

[Gunhacker]

Originally posted by Oryguner:
Makes you wonder....Why hide all that natural beauty under a tinted finish?

Boy isn't THAT the truth... I bought a set of Ahrend round butt combat grips that were "factory original" on S&W a 627. They were covered with a hideous opaque reddish finish that completely obscured the wood.

I stripped that stuff off... had to use a heavy duty stripper made for polyurethane and soak them in it for 30 mins, the stuff came off in a gelatinous glob of red goo.

Underneath was some nice looking wood, that really looked nice with a few coats of TruOil on them. What I did not understand is why the opaque finish was sprayed on when it's not anymore time consuming or difficult to have used a clear urethane.