Stop the threat ...

mc5aw said:
Here's a story from the NY Post about a fatal shooting involving two rookie NYPD officers and a teenage gang member with a handgun and rap sheet. What I found particularly interesting was Ray Kelly's comment about "shooting to stop".


Cop shoots armed 14-year-old boy dead in Bronx - NYPOST.com
Click to expand...

I agree with him. I'm not L.E. however I do work as an F.T.O. for a Armed Protection Agency. I teach all my officers the same thing. If you have to use deadly force. Shoot to put them down where they stand, not to "disable" . When someone is shot in the arm, leg, foot hand or what have you, they are still free to murder you. If their dead........they cant do that anymore.

Commissioner is 100% right.

And to comment on the Aunts reaction. That woman needs some xanex and a reality check.
 
I agree. It should be to stop. No knee cap shots! I remember watching a show about police shootings over the winter and one scene where officers confront a drunk/drugged man in the park with a gun. He raises the gun, they shoot him, he falls wounded. For the next 8hrs they hide behind their cruisers while trying to talk him into surrendering as he lays on the ground bleeding to death all the while pointing his gun at anyone who tries to break cover. He bled to death.

Point is, a wounded man can still kill.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
 
As Yogi said "Deja vu all over again." C'mon man, what is a 14 yr. old doing on the streets of New York at that time of night? Agree with ya Bobby.
 
It's also important to note that NY's Drakonian gun laws would not have kept the felon's handgun off the streets.
 
Shayliver is in real trouble now, that gun takes 16-17 rd. magazines. Banned in New Yuk. His "mom" should have her welfare / foodstamp allowance cut by one. I hope the state follows up on that.
 
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As for the aunt's insistence that there was no gun, that is so predictable as to be tiresome. Regardless of race, ethnicity or rap sheet, the deceased was nearly always "a good boy who loved his mama". (SEE: Tsarnaev)

Denial is a terrible thing when mixed with grief and rage, as it so often is.
 
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Well according to the article the boy had already an extensive record of murder and gun possession.. I am wondering how many lives that guy would have taken if the cops wouldn't have shot him.
His family has every right being upset, upset about their own failure and nothing else. I wish they could get charged with child negligence.
Is that what society has come too? Raising thugs?
A 14 year old has a gunfight... Am I back in Afghanistan? I would love to take all those thugs with me to Afghanistan where they could prove how tough they are :D
 
This is another good example of how skewed media coverage can be. A 14-y.o with a rap sheet like the one noted stopped being a "boy" long ago, and describing him as such is disingenuous. The terms "boy", "child", etc. are repeatedly used in media coverage to subtly portray innocence (innocence of youth) when in fact "hardened thug", "street punk", "gang member", etc. are far closer to the truth.
 
mc5aw said:
This is another good example of how skewed media coverage can be. A 14-y.o with a rap sheet like the one noted stopped being a "boy" long ago, and describing him as such is disingenuous. The terms "boy", "child", etc. are repeatedly used in media coverage to subtly portray innocence (innocence of youth) when in fact "hardened thug", "street punk", "gang member", etc. are far closer to the truth.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that is no surprise to most on this forum. The press likes to stir up controversy and emotion to sell advertising. Common sense and factual data only serve to get in the way of profits.
 
shouldazagged said:
He doesn't.

As for the aunt's insistence that there was no gun, that is so predictable as to be tiresome. Regardless of race, ethnicity or rap sheet, the deceased was nearly always "a good boy who loved his mama". (SEE: Tsarnaev)

Denial is a terrible thing when mixed with grief and rage, as it so often is.
Click to expand...

It's really kind of horrifying. I saw an interview with the aunt last night and from her reaction the troubles the boy had seemed perfectly normal to her. A culture where a 14 year old shoots someone, intimidates them into not cooperating with prosecutors, acquires a weapons charge in another incident, and then chases someone down the street shooting at them at 3am is "normal" is in a lot of trouble. She actually said that this was her sister's only child, and asked, "Who she gonna raise now?" Who was she raising before?

This incident will not will not be played as racial issue by the pols. This will be about gun control. Just ask Bill Cosby and recently Don Lemon what happens when you try to address the cultural issues at the heart of this.
 
I think it is very sad that the officers were forced to take the suspects life, but on the other hand the suspect was threatening the officers lives and the lives of innocent people and because of these threats they were required to use deadly force in that situation.
 
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From the OP-linked article:

She said her son had a premonition that he'd have a run-in with cops.
"My son was saying, 'I keep having dreams that [police] are going to hurt me soon.' This was last week,'' she said.
Douse had been arrested in May on attempted-murder charges for allegedly shooting a 15-year-old, but the rap was dropped when the fearful victim wouldn’t testify, sources said. Douse also had busts for robbery and weapons possession.

Not only was he just starting to turn his life around, but he had the unusual ability to predict the future, like that he would have a run-in with cops, just a week before he chose to chase someone with a gun and try to kill him. I mean, who else could have predicted such a thing?

What a waste of a life with such promise!
 
He was a little young for the "He was turning his life around, getting his GED, and "loved his children and their mothers", but not by much.

I've always been taught that as a police officer or civilian you always stop to shoot the threat, not to kill. The death of the suspect is the unfortunate side effect of shooting to stop him because it just so happens that the organs you want to hit to stop someone have a very high correlation with the organs you'd try to hit if you were trying to kill someone. Unfortunate, but unavoidable.



shouldazagged said:
As for the aunt's insistence that there was no gun, that is so predictable as to be tiresome. Regardless of race, ethnicity or rap sheet, the deceased was nearly always "a good boy who loved his mama". (SEE: Tsarnaev)

Denial is a terrible thing when mixed with grief and rage, as it so often is.
Click to expand...
 
Not that we really needed another example. It's a sad fact that the juvenile justice system became a failure when it went from being intended to protect and correct juveniles to being an adversarial system.

Now kids can become hardened criminals shortly after hitting puberty. In the long run society will be better off that this young man removed himself from the gene pool. There is no counting the misery he would have caused many people in the future.

mc5aw said:
This is another good example of how skewed media coverage can be.
Click to expand...
 
We are not trained to shoot to kill, we shoot to stop the threat. If the *** happens to die in the process, oh well.
 
From the Post article "The cops were part of Operation Impact, which puts uniformed rookies in high-crime areas."

Am I missing something here?? Or is this a new P.D.N.Y. trial by fire rookie test?
 
This has been mentioned a few times in recent months in various threads.... shoot to stop the threat. Not to wound or to kill. The fact is the shots that give you the best chance to stop a threat can easily be fatal.
 
What stumps me is how are these thugs with multiple arrests on the street?? Where is our criminal justice system? Are we practicing "catch and release" just like here in Afghanistan?? We catch the guy trying to kill soldiers and out the door he goes to try again!!
 
sad waste of a healthy body and mind .i wonder what the backstory is as seen by his peers? i wonder if he held his gun sideways? a lot of things well probably never know
 
shouldazagged said:
As for the aunt's insistence that there was no gun, that is so predictable as to be tiresome. Regardless of race, ethnicity or rap sheet, the deceased was nearly always "a good boy who loved his mama". (SEE: Tsarnaev)

Denial is a terrible thing when mixed with grief and rage, as it so often is.
Click to expand...

So very true. Was exposed to a lot of petty juvenile crime situations when I was younger (parent worked with city law enforcement) and the parents invariably denied their child could ever do anything wrong, even though the parents had no idea he was out at 2am on the other side of town and he was arrested with the stolen items in his arms walking down the street.

This one was an "angel", but it speaks volumes how much trouble this guy was in that even his mother was hedging with comments like "he was a good kid in his own way."

The aunt sounds like a winner too. I assume she's angling for the wrongful death settlement money. Given her rap sheet it's hard to chalk it up to being naive. lol.

Officers did the right thing of course. Don't like the outcome, don't go around shooting at people over your drug turf.
 
peyton said:
What stumps me is how are these thugs with multiple arrests on the street?? Where is our criminal justice system? Are we practicing "catch and release" just like here in Afghanistan?? We catch the guy trying to kill soldiers and out the door he goes to try again!!
Click to expand...

We've been practicing it since the 1960s, which is why so many of us now carry a firearm to run to the grocery.

Haven't seen the latest stats but something like 75% of crimes committed in the US are committed by someone already convicted of committing a crime.

What's really frightening to me is that even with so many criminals OUT of jail we still have the highest percentage of people in jail in the world. Something is scary level not right in this country b/c we seem to have a LOT of criminals. Way more than our share apparently.
 
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