Strange Modification to Pre-War K22 Outdoorsman

[davidj]

I recently picked a box of old parts, including a couple old frames in various states of disrepair. One is for a pre-war K22 Outdoorsman. There is an unusual modification to this frame -- someone has drilled and tapped 3 holes through the left side:

The machine work looks pretty good -- professional. The holes are counter-bored from the inside of the frame such that a small, flat-headed screw would (presumably) clear the hammer, trigger, etc. You can see this (to some extent) in this picture:

I have never seen this type of modification (or feature?) on a S&W revolver...or any revolver. I did some searches on the forum but couldn't find anything. Anyone got any ideas?

[Yes, I am aware that someone bent the yoke. We will see if the frame is even salvageable; it may very well be bent itself...]

 

[Sebago Son]

A Wall Hanger...

At some point in it's long and tortured life that poor Outdoorsman's was screwed to a wall through the backside of the frame.

I've seen this before.

I actually have a pre-war .38-44 Outdoorsman that has a hole through the stocks where it was hung by bailing wire passed through the wood.

In the hazy memory of my mis-spent youth in the Adirondacks, I seem to remember that there used to be a bar in Upstate New York where there were a number of like guns mounted in such a fashion... was in Warren county I believe. I wonder if this gun was once one of those....

Drew

 

[davidj]

So I can't rule out that as a possibility...

My first impression was (also) that someone must have butchered the poor thing for some similar reason -- what gives me pause is that these holes are threaded and counter-bored and the machine work is good. Which suggests to me that this was not just a matter of attaching it to a wall, etc. Why go to all that effort when you could just use a hand drill?

Now on the other hand, the bent yoke suggests that someone who (really) does not know what they are doing was playing around with this.

 

[DCWilson]

Anything attached to the outside of the frame would interfere with the operation of the ejection mechanism, at least for the bottom two holes. And an outside attachment would also seem to require removal of the thumb piece and bolt.

I'm thinking the holes are for mounting some kind of temporary attachment that might assist in evaluating and correcting a torqued frame. But then why bother to countersink the heads inside the frame? You wouldn't need to keep a clear path of travel for the lockwork.

Very peculiar.

EDITED TO ADD: OK, now I see Drew's post. That kind of makes sense.

 

[Oldiron]

Screw holes look a little too structured and in the wrong places for a wall hanger. My guess would be an early type of scope mount simular to the side mount Win '94s of old. Patina on the side of the frame looks like there may have been something mounted flat and open around the ejector latch.
My guess, Larry

 

[davidj]

Screw holes look a little too structured and in the wrong places for a wall hanger. My guess would be an early type of scope mount simular to the side mount Win '94s of old.
My guess, Larry

That is one of the possibilities that occurred to me. Unless the attachment was very, very flat it would interfere with the operation of the revolver, as DCWilson notes.

 

[davidj]

One other idea I had -- maybe this was some sort of means of slicking up the action??? Could it have been a way of incorporating a special bearing surface into the action? Seems unlikely, but . . .

 

[davidj]

I'm thinking the holes are for mounting some kind of temporary attachment that might assist in evaluating and correcting a torqued frame. But then why bother to countersink the heads inside the frame? You wouldn't need to keep a clear path of travel for the lockwork.

Yeah -- the fact that they are counter-bored is really what gave (gives) me pause.

 

[Slacker]

Guess #1: It was used in a gunsmithing school. It was secured to something via the screws and used to demonstrate the trigger mechanism to students.
Guess #2: It was used in a gallery type shooting game and the screw holes were used to mount it to a post that prevented it from being turned uprange. Since the cylinder release has a hole on the top and bottom, whatever was mounted to it was a "U" shape that allowed the thumb release to still function.

Frame/yoke was probably bent by someone trying to break it free from it's mount.

 

[David LaPell]

At some point in it's long and tortured life that poor Outdoorsman's was screwed to a wall through the backside of the frame.

I've seen this before.

I actually have a pre-war .38-44 Outdoorsman that has a hole through the stocks where it was hung by bailing wire passed through the wood.

In the hazy memory of my mis-spent youth in the Adirondacks, I seem to remember that there used to be a bar in Upstate New York where there were a number of like guns mounted in such a fashion... was in Warren county I believe. I wonder if this gun was once one of those....

Drew

I think you might have either been in Ashe's bar or the Messenger House, the only old bars that remind me of that, they were in Warrensburg. Ashe's is still there but the Messenger House burnt down when I was a kid. There are a few other places like that, the Black Bear, the Adirondack Hote, the Bear Trap and a couple of others were decorated that way, all very rustic. Nothing gets the tourists attention like old guns on the wall and old trapping gear. I love how we can sell a Number 1 Victor trap that has been in the woods one season for $30 to some guy from NYC or Jersey.

 

[Sebago Son]

Memories of 40 years ago ...

David, I was thinking it was Elkhearts in Stony Creek. But maybe not.... Might've been The Mountain View Hotel in Minerva.... which also burnt a few years ago, taking alot of local artifacts with it.

 

[handejector]

Drew,
I have trouble remembering some of the bars I was in, too.

 

[bettis1]

Pretty sure that was to attach a side mounted ammo box. Field expedient conversion to a belt fed weapon, don't cha know...

Bob

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

They are for zerk fittings..duhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[jspick]

I learn something new everytime I view this forum..........And this time is no different.........Not sure what I learned yet....Maybe all the bars in NY!! LOL

John

 

[cgt4570]

Is there an added hole and machined slot on the backstrap too? Possibly for some kind of shoulder stock?
Also, with the finish (or lack thereof), was it ever polished and blued? Is the frame properly serial numbered? I have to wonder if it was some kind of test gun, either factory or ammunition company. It's odd, though that the screws would be threaded and countersunk from the inside. That doesn't make sense for mounting something. My first thought was that a presentation plaque could have been mounted, but that doesn't make sense either. An email to Roy might tell you if it's open on the books.

 

[cgt4570]

I'm also curious about what other parts you might have aquired with that frame. I'm always looking for parts for various pre-war projects.

 

[4-Screw]

I will answer your future question: I would keep it as is. I would not re-blue it.

 

[Hammerdown]

Screw holes look a little too structured and in the wrong places for a wall hanger. My guess would be an early type of scope mount simular to the side mount Win '94s of old. Patina on the side of the frame looks like there may have been something mounted flat and open around the ejector latch.
My guess, Larry

Hey Larry
I think you are onto something here. With the slight forward angle of the drilled holes, and the upper hole being slightly larger in diameter, I would say it was for an apature sight of some kind, or another style of add on rear sight set up..... That would support why the rear sight blade is missing too if the apature sight was mounted perhaps the rear sight blade was in the added sight plane's way

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I will answer your future question: I would keep it as is. I would not re-blue it.

BIG +1 on this-rebluing will totally destroy collector value.