Stray Bullet Kills Man

[iwanna]

Stray bullet kills man watching New Year's fireworks

Tragic, of course. I've always wondered about this. If memory serves, our state DNR warns somewhere that a bullet upwards will come down at the same speed it goes up.

I don't mean to be disrespectful or encourage stupid activities, but it always seemed to me that a round that left the muzzle straight up at perhaps 900fps would fall back to earth at no more that about 200 and obviously with no stability. More or less a spent bullet.

I suppose that is plenty to be lethal in some cases. Anyway, it just seemed like the authorities were over-stating their warning--as authorities will tend to do sometimes.

Maybe in this case the round was fired horizontally?

Remember how ol' Saddam Hussein used to punctuate his speeches by firing a pistol or rifle into the air? Heck, everybody in that part of the world does that. We get a bit in our neighborhood, too, come to think of it.

 

[brucev]

Tragic. No other way to say it.

 

[Bugkiller99]

Such a waste. People shooting guns down the street here, too. Another reason I stayed home and inside.

 

[pmosley]

Great explanation on the dangers of such Tom-foolery.

http://goaskgrandpa.com/sample13.htm




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[iwanna]

Good read. Thank you.

I guess the part Grandpa didn't address was stability. I would expect a slow tumble on the way down due to air currents. Not quite what the DNR was warning about, but you know how they are. Always on the side of extreme public caution.

 

[scooter123]

Another factor is the angle to the horizon. Bullets fired at a 40-50 degree angle can achieve a distance equal to the maximum total range and carry enough velocity to be lethal, even after punching through the roof of a house. So, while a hard hat will probably protect you from a bullet fired straight up it won't protect you from a bullet fired a couple of miles distance at an angle of 20 or 30 degrees to the horizon. Almost every year somewhere in the USA there are people killed by bullets fired in celebration of the 4th of July or on New Years. It's why if the police catch someone doing this they now tend to pile on every single feasible charge available under the Law. Personally, I would fully endorse that Police Officer tasering that idiot until he started to smoke and then pile on every available charge under the Law.

 

[Brian41]

Tragic and something I hear around here every New Years Eve and always hope they're shooting into the ground or backstop.
Only felt the need to shoot once for New Years and we used shotguns with shot towards a safe direction. Younger then and must have got it out of my system then.

 

[ckcc]

I have been hit in the head by fireworks debris (bottle rockets or the larger ones) falling back down and can say that those give a good smack when they hit you or an object nearby. So I'm sure even a small chunk of lead at terminal velocity would hurt and possibly be capable of damage. So I agree that firing guns straight into the air has potential to do harm. Shotguns with small shot sizes (not slugs or buckshot) would be safer..... ever been peppered with falling shot in a dove field? It sounds like this was a case of a gun being fired in a random direction, not up in the air.

 

[cmort666]

And in a totally unrelated matter, somebody in another forum is pushing the efficacy of "warning shots"...

 

[Muss Muggins]

Because physics . . .

 

[Cpo1944]

I get really mad every time is see some Yahoo shoot up in the air. It`s just plain stupid and criminal. Unfortunately I don't suppose they will ever catch the guilty party! On a side note I don't see how you can go dove hunting without getting peppered by bird shot ,I have many many times, but never any harm or damage done.

 

[cmort666]

On a side note I don't see how you can go dove hunting without getting peppered by bird shot ,I have many many times, but never any harm or damage done.

It's a matter of mass and retained energy.

I shot at the 8th Army Rod & Gun Club in Seoul, and the path to the rifle and pistol range was between it and the shotgun range. The path was covered with pretty dense foliage, and you could hear the shot striking the leaves, but nobody ever got hit.

 

[H Richard]

The bullet fired straight up does not fall at the same speed. Keep in mind that it goes up until it runs out of velocity, literally comes to a stop, then falls just as though you let it fall from your hand. I believe it was Julian Hatcher that did the studies, and using a 30-06 the bullet falling on a wooden deck just bounced off the floor. Could it hurt someone, yes it could. Kill someone, doubtful. Now a bullet "still in flight", maybe a mile from the muzzle could still have enough retained energy to kill someone.

 

[Comrad]

We had one in NJ come down through a homes skylight, nobody hurt but an unnecessary repair job.

 

[pmosley]

And in a totally unrelated matter, somebody in another forum is pushing the efficacy of "warning shots"...

To my way of thinking and with no bravado intended, a warning shot equates to a miss.


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[quneur]

Every object wiil fall at an accelerated rate until, as ckcc mentioned, it reaches terminal velocity. Basically, when the force (mass x acceleration of gravity) = drag, is when there is no acceleration (not speed up or down). How it fell would determine how quickly it reached terminal velocity but this would be minimal as the mass would overwhelm the slight changes in the drag coeffient.

 

[Muss Muggins]

The bullet fired straight up does not fall at the same speed. Keep in mind that it goes up until it runs out of velocity, literally comes to a stop, then falls just as though you let it fall from your hand. I believe it was Julian Hatcher that did the studies, and using a 30-06 the bullet falling on a wooden deck just bounced off the floor. Could it hurt someone, yes it could. Kill someone, doubtful. Now a bullet "still in flight", maybe a mile from the muzzle could still have enough retained energy to kill someone.

If you click on the link contained above in this thread about terminal velocity, you may reconsider your thoughts on this . . .

 

[finesse_r]

The bullet fired straight up does not fall at the same speed. Keep in mind that it goes up until it runs out of velocity, literally comes to a stop, then falls just as though you let it fall from your hand. I believe it was Julian Hatcher that did the studies, and using a 30-06 the bullet falling on a wooden deck just bounced off the floor. Could it hurt someone, yes it could. Kill someone, doubtful. Now a bullet "still in flight", maybe a mile from the muzzle could still have enough retained energy to kill someone.

Either old Julian Hatcher did not know much about physics or he miscalculated. A bullet falling at 32 feet per second squared will be moving fast enough to go right though the skull of anyone or anything that it hits coming back down. Just ball parking it the bullet would be going somewhere between 300 and 500 miles per hour. It continues to accelerate until the friction of the atmosphere neutralizes the acceleration of the pull of gravity. Then it will continue to fall at that speed until it hits something or someone. Sir Isaac Newton is the authority on that one.

 

[DeadAye]

Most estimates that I've seen put the terminal velocity of a falling bullet at 200 to 300 feet per second.
The speed that the friction of the air (drag) equals the effect of gravity depends on the shape of the bullet - then it can fall no faster.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Most estimates that I've seen put the terminal velocity of a falling bullet at 200 to 300 feet per second.
The speed that the friction of the air (drag) equals the effect of gravity depends on the shape of the bullet - then it can fall no faster.

Sounds fatal to the top of a skull to me . . .

 

[finesse_r]

A human body will flatten out at a speed of 120 to 130 miles per hour. I cannot imagine a compact bullet (especially a lead one) would not fall a lot faster before the rate of acceleration flattened out. No doubt the weight and shape of the bullet would vary the top speed some, but I sure would not want to be hit on the top of the head by a hunk of steel falling from say a quarter of a mile high.

 

[J. W.]

The catch is firing the bullet perfectly straight up. Anything another than perfectly vertical the bullet retains energy and follows a trajectory instead of running out of energy and falling back to earth at whatever it's terminal velocity is.


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[427mach1]

A quick calculation of a 0.308" 150 grain bullet, assuming a drag coefficient of 0.20, falling perfectly straight down, would reach a terminal velocity of just under 420 feet per second. This is an ideal condition for a low drag bullet but it shows that the potential exists for fatal injuries.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Most estimates that I've seen put the terminal velocity of a falling bullet at 200 to 300 feet per second.
The speed that the friction of the air (drag) equals the effect of gravity depends on the shape of the bullet - then it can fall no faster.

That's correct. 300 fps max. or about 1/3 the velocity of a 45 ACP round. That's enough to kill someone who is hit in the head by a spent bullet. Use a shotgun if you need to make noise to ring in the New Years.

 

[rwsmith]

Had a professor....

His mother was in her house when a bullet came through the wall and killed her. From the trajectory they figured that it was fired from a long way off. I guess if a person shooting in that direction and time of day read the news they would feel awful guilty.

 

[gubowner]

Mythbusters episode #50 busts the theory that a bullet fired straight up will fall at the same rate that it left the muzzle.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Mythbusters episode #50 busts the theory that a bullet fired straight up will fall at the same rate that it left the muzzle.

Pretty sure nobody here is saying that. I know I'm not. Did they say it would still hurt?

 

[Jinglebob]

Stray bullets can come form anywhere at anytime. Back in the 1980s in Montgomery County there was a funeral underway at the church cemetery on the outskirts of town.

One of the mourners in attendance, a lady in her 60s, was struck in the shoulder by a stray .22 bullet. The authorities traced the incident to a couple of teens hunting squirrel on an adjoining section of land.

 

[R. G. Amos]

A bullet leaves the muzzle with a certain kinetic energy. As the bullet travels vertically, the kinetic energy is changed to potential energy. When the bullet reaches its max height (further upward movement stopped) , all the kinetic energy has been changed to potential energy. Then the process reverses itself and the bullet should arrive at its starting point where the potential energy has been converted back completely to kinetic energy. In the absence of friction, the bullet should have the same velocity upon its return as it did at its departure. Friction effects of course reduce the actual velocities. This is simple conservation of energy.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I hear this BS quoted all the time. A bullet, or any projectile goes up based on being "propelled". The bullet comes back down due only to the force of gravity, F=MA. Terminal velocity limits the maximum acceleration obtained.

In other words, a piece of hail weighing 230 grains is as deadly as a 45 ACP fired at any trajectory greater than 45 degrees from the horizontal.