Stupid Engineering: Servicing the Product

[NYlakesider]

Old time drag racer here. Some of the more powerful Mustangs of the late 60s had to have their headers disconnected the motor mounts bolts pulled and the engine jacked up to get at some of the plugs.

My modified 67 Dodge RT the plugs were so hard to get to(especially when they were hot, like at the drag strip) that the easiest way to do them involved a large slot cut in the wheel well. I made a sheet metal plate that came on and off by using a few sheet metal screws. Then you cranked the wheels as far as you could to do one side and did 2 plugs on each side of the motor. Then crank the wheels to the other side and then do the other 2 plugs on each side.

As far as battery in the back that's a old drag racer trick to get weight off the front end and put the weight over the right rear wheel for better traction. FWIW my 07 Z06 Corvette has its battery mounted back there to give it optimum weight distribution. Car handles like a bad boys dream! It sits in a little pocket under the trunk floor. As another poster says if jumping is necessary you can go to the battery or there is a stud under the hood on a fuse block for jumping and then ground on the engine.

 

[mtgianni]

Our 02 Dodge Stratus had the battery behind the front tire in a compartment. You had to pull the tire to access it but it did have battery terminal access points to charge or jump it under the hood.

 

[perrazi]

my Pontiac g8 gt has the battery in the trunk behind a cover. the auto companies intententionally design vehicles so owners cannot work on them. that is the idea. they have been dong this for many years. more work for the dealership, particularly when you need special tools only the car companies sell. corvettes used to be notorious for this. don't know about now.

 

[Marshwheeling]

BMW motorcycles used to be so simple and straightforward it was said you could disassemble one almost completely with the tools in the tool kit. Not quite true, and I always supplemented mine with a few useful items, but I could do any repair I encountered on the road. I put 200,000 miles on the first one I owned, and never paid a shop to do anything except shim my wheel bearings.

Now the bikes are like the cars, requiring all kinds of special equipment to do routine maintenance. A bike that costs $20-30k should almost never require dealer maintenance. Instead, scheduled maintenance costs a ton, and you probably can't do it yourself. I have a few of the older ones, but I don't want a new one.

 

[therevjay]

My '04 300M has the fuel filter (not just the pump) inside the fuel tank.

The owners manual says, "this item should not need replacement for the life of the vehicle."

The key words here are "should not". And just what do they consider "the life of the vehicle?"

 

[Bat Guano]

My first vehicle was a nice used '53 Chevy pickup, straight off the farm. 216 inch stovebolt six and three speed manual. Dirt simple and it did everything I needed to do those days. I still miss it...

Found the proper radio for it in a junkyard. It was a tube type, of course, and about the size of a 12 pack of beer. I got the thing into the dash without much problem (except for the weight!) and darned if it didn't work. I can still remember how big a thrill it was to hear Glenn Campbell singing "Wichita Lineman" as we trundled down those Montana roads.

And I could run new 6.00 x 16 bias ply farm equipment tires for $10.50...gas was about 26 cents a gallon.

Gotta go cry now.

 

[jaykellogg]

And I could run new 6.00 x 16 bias ply farm equipment tires for $10.50...gas was about 26 cents a gallon.

Gotta go cry now.

I don't know about you, but in my case when gasoline was 31¢ a gallon, I was earning $1.00 an hour. What makes me cry is that 1959 Jaguar I passed up for $590 (about 1965) or that restored 1948 lincoln Continental convertible for $1600. How about a running and driving 1934 Lincoln KB 7 passenger sedan for $1200. (Dad sold that one). I passed on a running and driving 1959 Ford retractable hardtop for $150.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I had a 1974 K-5 Blazer (first car/truck) in 74. I put on Hooker Headers, You couldn't get a spark plug wrench onto #8 plug. Solution: to remove old plug-snap off the ceramic back half and remove with a standard socket. To install new plug, spin in plug by hand and tighten with open end wrench. I later owned a 1979 Suburban (in the early 90's) and the heater fan screamed like a banshee. You were supposed to remove most of the dash to get to that motor. I took a dremel tool and cut a access hole about 6" square, replaced motor then made a little door out of the cut out piece. Total time of replacement: 45 minutes. Lastly, 1979 international Cub Lo-boy tractor. The PTO was an electric clutch system and the switch was a 6 wired nightmare that went bad several times. To pull the dash the steering wheel needed to come off the dealer mechanics would break steering wheel, pull the dash and charge you for a new wheel. My father-in-law, used a dremel tool to split the dash ,did the repair and pop-riveted the dash back together. Later a dealer mechanic saw our system and gave customers that option for about $200 less (making the repair about $65). That was one of those poor engineering things where if the throttle was a 1/2 inch to the side you could replace the switch without pulling the dash. Ivan

 

[G-Mac]

Before I start, my background with my company is 26 years so far.
12 years building the product.
Then promoted to design where i designed, built, trained for 10 years.
Now, I manage the Bill of Materials division

Ok, so I changed the oil on my new Husqvarna 24 hp (Kohler engine) mower today.
You are supposed to change the oil after the first 8 hours with fresh oil and filter, then every season.

The oil filter is on the left side. You have to remove a plastic cover to access the filter.
First complaint: there are 2 tabs and a plastic fastener. You know that plastic fastener may last 3 or 4 times, then it breaks.
Why not just use 4 tabs that slide in?

Second complaint: so you have removed the cover to access the filter. Shouldn't you be able to access the drain as well? Well no dummy, you have to go to the other side and remove the other panel. And to make it even more of a pain in the butt, the starter is sitting right on top of the drain, making it hard to get to.
Yes, it as a quick release for easy draining but why not put this by the oil filter and also extend it out so it can easily drain into the oil pan?
Note: on mine, they didn't even tighten the drain plug good. I tightened it as tight as I could with my fingers but I can't get in there to tighten it. I got it as tight as I could. Without removing the starter, I don't know how to get it really tight.

Third complaint: ok so I've drained it, pre soaked and installed a filter and now I'm ready to pour in my full synthetic Castrol GTX.
Hmmm, the manual states 1.7 to 1.9 quarts.
I've got an idea, why don't you design it to take a full 2 quarts? Then the owner doesn't have to sit there pouring and checking, pouring and checking.

Anyway........it's ready to roll. Just very aggravating. I just don't understand why you can't think about what a customer needs and get out of your "engineering mode" and put yourself in the end users position.

SD

Did you figure all these "design flaws" out before, or after, you bought it?

As a product engineer, I would think that these things might be apparent before making the purchase, which might cause you to make a different choice.

Kind of like buying a new S&W revolver, then complaining that it has MIM parts.

Solution....don't buy one.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

That is right up there with new push mowers not having a drain plug to change the oil. I have a MTD Yard-Man with the Honda motor, which has been reliable as all get out but no drain plug. They expect you to tip the mower over which is a royal PITA. This year when it was oil change time I remembered I have one of those cheap fluid suction tools (basically and hand soap dispenser with hose on each end). It worked a whole lot better and was much easier.

Well if it has a drain plug don't you still have to tip it over to get to it? Or do you put it on a rack

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

MAN Diesel: marine application, 1200hp V12. Beautiful German engineering, right? Cartridge type oil filters! The cannister mounted upside down, and right flush with the engine block. You WILL dump a quart of burned oil each change, unless you remote mount spin on filters. No problem, only costs about $3500 each engine. Ach du lieber...

And another thing!( while I'm ranting about marine engine systems) Volvo IPS are a beautiful thing, fantastic handling, super effecient, much better than the shaft/ strut/prop and rudder system... Except to change the gear oil, (every 1000 hrs.)the vessel must be hauled! That's some real hassle with a 70 footer.

Yea....but if you can afford those babies you can afford the maintenence. I did not know however that you had to haul the boat to service the pods! It don't take long to put 1000 hours on a seriously fished boat. Pods are cool, but I figure that any man worth his salt should be able to handle at least a 50 footer twin screw or single with a thruster. I'm gonna hold off on the pods for a while......

 

[Grayfox]

I've made a living by turning wrenches for 41 years. Mostly on bigger trucks and equiptment. But I do work on cars occasionally, especially my own.
I do believe that if I were to ever meet an Automotive Design Engineer in person, I would feel obligated to beat the **** out of him just on principle.

 

[RonJ]

My Dad tried to change the battery in our '53 Lincoln Cosmopolitan. He searched most of the day trying to find it. Finally came into supper and I swear it's the closest I ever saw him to absolute rage. He ate his supper and calmed down a bit. My baby sister comes in with the manual and says "Daddy, where's the passengers footwell?" I learned almost all my cusswords in about 15 minutes.

 

[snowman]

I don't own a lawn mower, but since the thread migrated to cars early on I'll contribute.

I feel very fortunate. I drive a 1991 Honda Civic sedan, which has 274,000+ miles. I have done virtually all the maintenance and repair, which means of course that I have become well acquainted with the serviceability of the vehicle. After all the procedures I've done on it, I'm convinced that Honda's engineers consciously designed the vehicle for facility of repair. Though there has been an exception or two, I've been pleasantly surprised again and again at the lack of headaches experienced in gaining access to fasteners and components and so on. I recall approaching my first timing belt change with some apprehension, since the Civic is a compact vehicle with little extra space to work under the hood. What I discovered was that, if one followed the service manual's order of disassembly, each component one removed opened up sufficient space to remove the next one. This was so obvious that I don't see how it could have been left to chance.

I don't know if the company has continued to practice the above, since this car is my primary transportation and I haven't worked on newer Hondas. But it has certainly been a relief not to have to deal with horrors such as have been mentioned in earlier posts.

Regards,
Andy

 

[rcnixon]

My current "dream ride" is a 1970 Ford F-150 with the 300 CID six and a manual transmission. The only electronics in the vehicle are in the radio.

My neighbor lent me his pressure washer last week. Whenever I borrow it, I do a bit of maintenance on it. This time it was an oil change. The oil drain on the Honda CV-160 is above the base plate and the unit has to be turned on its side to drain the oil without spilling it all over the base plate. A two-inch hole would have fixed that.

Don't even get me started on cars.

Russ

 

[SmokeStack Lightning]

We can't expect everthang to be designed as simply and work as well as the M&P series of firearms.

 

[johnjohn]

The Buick with the battery under the seat shows how far behind our engeneering is. I bought a 1963 VW and thats where the battery was.

 

[Cyrano]

My wife's grandmother needed a new battery in her Buick.

It ain't in the engine bay, that would be stupidly simplistic.

No, it's under the BACK SEAT!!!

My long gone '56 Volkswagen had it there too.. Wonder when (and if) VW moved it.

 

[Old TexMex]

Yea....but if you can afford those babies you can afford the maintenence. I did not know however that you had to haul the boat to service the pods! It don't take long to put 1000 hours on a seriously fished boat. Pods are cool, but I figure that any man worth his salt should be able to handle at least a 50 footer twin screw or single with a thruster. I'm gonna hold off on the pods for a while......

Come down and go for a spin on this 70 spencer. I never seen anything handle like it.(it doesn't have a thruster).
The latest genius design actually put an internal tube all the way to the bottom of the pod, so now the lube can be sucked out from in the engine room. You'd have thought that would've occurred to 'em earlier...