SW 317 .22 Jamming Problems

[Wired]

my nib 317 has the same issues, in addition to misfires. misfired shells would fire in another gun.
filing .001 off the cone solved the jamming.
I still have misfires. I suspect the spring is weak and will try C&S extended firing pin and a new 12 lb spring
I have had much difficulty getting warranty service.

 

[kimber 22]

my nib 317 has the same issues, in addition to misfires. misfired shells would fire in another gun.
filing .001 off the cone solved the jamming.
I still have misfires. I suspect the spring is weak and will try C&S extended firing pin and a new 12 lb spring
I have had much difficulty getting warranty service.

Wired -

Before you go changing the spring, you might want to do a little more research. There could actually be a headspace issue or something else. If you had to file the cone (which sounds like the chamber end of the barrel to me) you may wind up increasing headspace by adding to cylinder endplay. Since .22's headspace off of the rim, you will then get light primer strikes due to an endplay problem, and a new spring won't help that. A heavier spring also increases trigger pull.

Every qualified source I have read or talked to advises against extended firing pins. A firing pin protrusion gauge from Brownell's can help with determining if that is even a problem. You also need a micrometer to measure the gauge before and after. Also, getting the firing pin in and out could be a real PIA and may require a special pin punch. With a new gun, that is probably the last of your worries.

I recently picked up a 6-shot 617 at a gunshow, and had misfires about one round out of each cylinder. Since I was not the original owner, S&W wouldn't promise warranty coverage, but offered to take a look at it. Since I don't like their stubborn refusal to communicate return shipment, and I like learning how to fix things, I tackled this one on my own. I first noticed what looked like file marks at the forcing cone end of the barrel. That filing was probably done by somebody like us trying to loosen up the fit between the barrel and the cylinder, which was very tight. What they also did was leave behind burrs on the edge of the barrel, both inside and out; and create excess cylinder endplay. [You need a set of feeler gauges to really tell if it's bad enough to cause you a problem.] In my case, there was too much endplay, and a 0.004" shim took care of my problem. There could be more to your problem, so look into it, or take it to a gunsmith.

If you haven't taken a sideplate off of a S&W revolver, go to Midway and look at Larry Potterfield's S&W project videos. There are some very helpful hints that aren't exactly intuitive to the hobbyist and will make your job easier. He makes it look incredibly easy, especially replacing the rebound spring. Replacing the rebound spring is difficult, even with the right tool. If you don't have a rebound spring tool, you will need to buy one or make one.

I have found Patrick Sweeney's book on gunsmithing for handguns to be especially helpful, and he's funny, too. (I don't have the exact title in front of me but can dig it up if you need it.)

If you don't have a bunch of tools, don't want to become a "frequent flyer" at Brownell's, don't really like fixing things you haven't properly learned how to do, then take it to your local 'smith or send it back to Smith. If it were my brand new S&W, I'd send it back to them.

I'm surprised you've had trouble getting warranty service from S&W. They really are pretty good about that, though I think I had to stay on them to get the shipping paperwork.

 

[one eye joe]

Sally, your engineer friend has a sharp eye......

 

[Wired]

K22, thanks for the well written post.
sounds like a shim may solve the problem. I plan to buy headspace guages to see what is actually going on.

 

[sally]

@one-eye-joe :
What do you mean?

 

[kimber 22]

@one-eye-joe :
What do you mean?

Hey Sally - you're the one who started this thread - did you ever get your 317 working right?

 

[kimber 22]

K22, thanks for the well written post.
sounds like a shim may solve the problem. I plan to buy headspace guages to see what is actually going on.

No problem Wired!

I bought headspace gauges, and they didn't really help me. I needed feeler gauges so I could tell how many thousands were in the gap before and after the shims. There's nothing wrong with having a set of headspace gauges on hand if you shoot a lot through one firearm or buy used ones. When the cylinder is "locked up" in the revolver, does it move fore and aft? (That is end play.)

Last night I was thinking about how you have to take the cylinder apart to insert the shims. Look at the Potterfield videos - he shows a technique for removing the ejector rod, which is left-hand thread in modern S&W's, that will help prevent bending it. Brownell's has a nifty little jig for that, but if you already have a bench vise of some kind you can save the money. He also shows putting in some shims. Like I said, he makes it look way easier...

The book is Gunsmithing Pistols & Revolvers by Patrick Sweeney - the same guy that does a lot of G&A articles. The book doesn't turn you into a gunsmith; at a minimum, it will help you understand what is wrong and how to communicate with your gunsmith when you finally need service. (The latter point has already paid for the book.) The Publisher is Gun Digest Books (Gun Price Guides, Gun Value Books, Firearms Pricing Guides - GunDigestStore.com)

Good luck!

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Hey Sally - you're the one who started this thread - did you ever get your 317 working right?

Good question, inquireing minds want to know.

Earlier this year I picked up a new 317 and went through my pre-firing, new gun, cleaning ritual, which I do to make sure there aren't any wayward chips left hanging around from the machineing process. After that I went out and ran 8 rounds through it and repeated the process just in case the vibration from fireing it might have knocked loose any chips I might have missed. This is done in order to prevent any undue wear, especially to the rifleing in the barrel.

The next day my wife went out to shoot it and by the second cylinder it started cramping up (jamming), every time after five rounds had been fired. My initial thought had been that it could have something to do with the firing pin indentation on the spent cases coming in contact with the breech face side of the frame and binding things up. We worked through the 42 rounds left from the box of 50 that I opened when I fired my 8 the day before and then I took the gun in and looked it over closely.

When I looked down the bore with a light it was filled with metal chips, which prompted me to sit the gun down and tell my wife, let's go! We went back to the gun shop and purchased a Taurus Model 94, the first of two, both of which have performed flawlessly so far.

The next day I called S&W and had a pre-paid shipping label sent.
The gun was only gone about a week & a half and here is what the repair order had listed when I got it back.

To be honest I have yet to fire the 317 after getting it back, which has been months ago now, something I need to do just to see if it's fixed. Been running the 94's, Model 18 as well as a K22 and the 317 has been sitting in the safe...............

 

[Gebe]

It seems like the brunt of these problems are occurring with the newer generation, (HI-VIZ front sight), 317's.

My old 317 purchased new in 1998 has no such problems. It was a little tight loading and removing cases, (like all rimfire Smiths), but soon loosened up. I can shoot it all day with no problem.

 

[cjwils]

I was interested to see ogilvyspecial's comments regarding his 317 and Taurus 94. My 317 problems seem to have been totally fixed in a short time by S&W. However, before that, I bought a new T94, which was a complete piece of junk. The very first day, it totally jammed after about about 30 shots. Jammed so badly that it was almost impossible to swing the cylinder open, let alone cock it for another shot. When I ran a patch through the bore, metal shavings came out. I sent it back to Taurus. They had it a lot longer than S&W had my 317, and when I got the T94 back, it was only partly fixed. It didn't totally jam, but I still had occasional difficult trigger pull, and frequent difficult extraction. Even though Taurus said they fixed it, I still think it's a piece of junk, so I sold it back to the dealer at a big loss. I continue to be happy with my 317 after it was fixed. And, I must add that my 62 year old Colt 22 rimfire, (an Official Police model) has never jammed or had difficult extraction.

 

[Wired]

My 317 is back from the hospital and runs like a sewing machine!
same letter as olgivy

 

[revolvergeek]

+1 on what Buff said. My 317 will start getting hard to extract after about 30 rounds...by 50 rounds its almost unworkable.

My 617-??? (I forget at the moment, -2 maybe? with the forged parts and 10 shot aluminum cylinder) would do this to me, then I cleaned it well and polished the chambers with Flitz, blue paper towels and a Parker Hale jag. Works great now and last trip to the range I put about 170 rounds through it without cleaning.

 

[kimber 22]

My 617-??? (I forget at the moment, -2 maybe? with the forged parts and 10 shot aluminum cylinder) would do this to me, then I cleaned it well and polished the chambers with Flitz, blue paper towels and a Parker Hale jag. Works great now and last trip to the range I put about 170 rounds through it without cleaning.

I've done the same to both a 617 and a 17. It helps a lot. The 17 is older, and had a much nicer cylinder to begin with. The 617 chambers look like the surface of the Moon, even after polishing. S&W was probably pushing tool life on that one!

Tip on the Flitz - get the paste. Bore mops get dirty really fast, so use 1/4" clothesline rope. (Cotton, not poly as the synthetics may react with the Flitz.) You will need some smaller thread to wrap around the clothesline to get the lead end started. Once the rope is in the chamber, put some Flitz around a small section of the long end of the rope, and pull it back and forth. Once that section is black, apply some paste to a clean section of rope, pull back and forth, and so on. I cut the clothesline into sections about 10' long so it's more manageable. Stepping on part of the clean end makes it easier to go back and forth with the cylinder.

Inspect your progress frequently and make note of how deep the irregularities in each chamber are. If the tooling used to cut the chambers was extremely rough, polishing them until perfectly smooth could result in chambers that are too large and thus unsafe. (Not to mention it would take a really long time...)

Exercise care while polishing to keep pressure as even as you can; this will help prevent rounding over edges that should be square, or polishing the cylinder out of round. Also be careful with the extractor rod - they bend easily.

When you are done, clean thoroughly, paying special attention to recesses like under the extractor star. I would also soak it with some lube before shooting, especially if you have one that works into the pores of the metal like Gunzilla. Of course, after letting the oil seep in, clean off the excess before firing.

If you use bore mops, get a small-items laundry bag, soak them in Shout, rinse out the worst crud, Shout again, put them in the bag, and toss in the washer with some jeans. I let them air dry.

I am NOT a gunsmith, I AM a hobbyist, so use YOUR judgment in determining if you follow my advice.

You could also take the revolver to a gunsmith and ask the 'smith to polish the cylinders...

 

[sally]

S&W Exchanged my 317 for a new gun

Been out of the country but S&W shipped me a new 317. I'll report back on how it works when I get a chance to get out to the range.

 

[sally]

ready to give up

Well the CCI's still jammed up. Had better luck with Winchesters, but I cannot extract the spent shells. As an added bonus: the new gun makes an annoying rattling noise. Contacted S&W again; they are sending another return envelope. Said the rattling noise is hammer block and that some guns rattle more than other. Whatever.

 

[pipeliner]

I have two mod. 317 and have only had trouble with extraction when I used some very cheap ammo. I can't remember the name at the present. I have good service with Federal bulk from wally world. My first 317 has 10,000 + rounds through it. Also have two mod.34 -1 and find that the cylinder feels tighter than the mod. 317. I use a nylon brush dry to clean for easy loading.

 

[kimber 22]

Well the CCI's still jammed up. Had better luck with Winchesters, but I cannot extract the spent shells. As an added bonus: the new gun makes an annoying rattling noise. Contacted S&W again; they are sending another return envelope. Said the rattling noise is hammer block and that some guns rattle more than other. Whatever.

None of my Smith & Wessons rattle significantly, but it is believable that the hammer block causing that.

When S&W got your other one back at the factory, did they say anything about the chambers? I know mine get tight when they are dirty, so I really clean them thoroughly. In my rimfires, I have even gone so far as to polish the chambers to help ease the onerous task of cleaning all those chambers. I've only got six-shooters and I get tired of all that cleaning!

You may need to use a slightly larger caliber (i.e. .243) brush in the cylinder because the cylinder diameter is larger than the bore. On top of that, S&W .22 bores are usually pretty tight, so I find that a .22 brush that is tight in the barrel doesn' effectively clean the chambers in the cylinder. Another option is a Hoppes tornado brush, which is looped stainless steel instead of the usual bronze bristles. I just started doing this though, so I cannot recommend the tornado unequivocally. Some gunsmiths revile the use of stainless brushes as they easily damage smooth surfaces. I use them on chambers ONLY, never the bore itself.

When you say CCI's, which cartridges are you using? I ask because Stingers' cases are actually slightly longer than a true .22 Long Rifle, which can cause problems in some tightly chambered guns.

.22 ammo can be funny. Bulk ammo often burns "dirtier" than others. By that, I mean they leave more residue in both carbon deposits and unburned powder. Different brands, and different lots of the same brand, may occasionally have excessive lube on the bullet, making chambering a little difficult. The more carbon, powder, waxy lube, etc. builds up, the more your spent cases will stick. I find CCI Mini-Mags leave the least residue for me.

 

[tripledipper]

My wife just got her cc using a late 90's 317LS with Federal bulk ammo. Worked every time.

 

[1911-Shooter]

Brand new to this site but I HAD to post what worked for me. My 317 is an older version (pre-Papa Oscar Sierra attorney mandatated lock safety). After a thorough cleaning it will function for 50 or so rounds and then the cylinder starts to seize. At about 100 rounds you are done.

I took it out to the range yesterday (5-21-2012) and started all over again. I was using primarily some CCI round nose high velocity and some Blazer hp high velocity fodder. I did notice "lead shavings" inside some chambers.

Came back home and after stewing for a few hours I started looking at other posts about the problem. Seems that ALL the ammo I have been shooting was 40 grain high velocity stuff, and some folks mentioned using 36 grain stuff without a hiccup. I had a 525 round brick of Federal "Champion" .22LR that I had not openend yet and noticed the rounds are 36 grain.

So off to the range I go. Did NOT clean the gun but worked the cylinder free again. I am sure one more round of the 40 grain stuff would have seized it up again, so I figured this would give me a good run on the gun, if it seized up immediately I wouldn't go any further. Guess what? 100+ rounds and it was still shooting.

Not sure what is the problem but obviously .22LR ammo is not made consistantly from manufacturer to manufacturer. Hope this helps someone else.

 

[cgb]

I had a model 63 go back 3 times with the exact same problem your having, and they replaced it with a 617 that shot and ejected OK, but after a few range trips i noticed it leaded like crazy. The forcing cone was almost non existent. On the phone Smith said 22 revolvers lead, but I could send it back and they would look at it. I did not even bother to send it back. I had enough. They can't even look over a replacement for obvious flaws like a barely cut forcing cone? I took it to Alan Tanaka and he cut the forcing cone, crowned it, did some work to the cylinder, and a trigger job. It hardly leads at all now. Wow, imagine that, an hour of handwork and it ejects easy even after a few hundred rounds, has only mild leading on the top strap, not welded over the entire cylinder face, and a trigger that's a dream. I will never buy another new S&W period. Nobody checks these things, or puts an ounce of extra labor beyond what it takes to assemble the thing. Either your lucky and the machine was cutting in spec, or your unlucky and get a piece of junk. As far as the finishing touches that make a great revolver, forget it. I'm sure there's been some steps cut and a few seasoned gunsmiths replaced by some starting wage hacks. And now that demand it way up, you can bet their using tooling till it's blue and smoking. Nope, corperate could give a rats puckered backside whether you get a functioning gun or not. Just get them out the door and make the stockholders money.