SWS Brass Deflector is now available

[Freeway]

I am wondering if velocity has anything to do with the variances. Standard velocity (1,040 fps or so) should eject with less force than HV (1,200+ fps). I don't have any SV on hand to try, and there is nothing on the shelves locally.

Since I don't shoot SV anyway, it would be more of an intellectual exercise than a solution to my problem.

That may be an idea! I was using Federal Champion 36g CPHP rounds @ 1260 fps. I do have some standard and low velocity rounds I could try. Of these, does anyone have a recommendation...

Aguila Super Colibri
CCI Green Tag Precision (CCI # 0033)
CCI Segmented 32g (only have 50 of these)
CCI Segmented 40g
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Subsonic HP

On the other end (higher velocity) I could try some of these...
Aguila Super Maximum
CCI Stinger (only have 50 of these)
CCI Velocitor
Winchester Varmint HE 3/1


I have used a lot of these, since I had a good supply, and they have all caused problems...
CCI Blazer
CCI Mini Mag - 40g CPSP
Federal Champion - 36g CPHP
Remington Golden Bullets
Winchester M-22

All of these are just over 1200 fps. So maybe I can try higher and lower. Hope this information helps!

 

[Majorlk]

Freeway,

Your experience with the 25 and 45 degree deflectors seems to be pretty much the opposite of what the rest of us are experiencing.

 

[Jyezahn]

Here are my results from testing. I shoot both right and left handed, but I was shooting left-handed for testing per SWS request. Ammo used was CCI Standard Velocity, CCI Stinger, and Winchester M22. For each deflector, I ran 2 magazines (one slow rate of fire, one fast rate of fire) of each type of ammo.

45 degree - 150 rounds - No bouncebacks, but had about half of the casings hit my right arm. Casings landed pretty much in the same area.

25 degree - 150 rounds - No bouncebacks, no casings hit my right arm. Casings landed in a closer grouping.

90 degree STD1 - 150 rounds - No bouncebacks, no casings hit my right arm. Casings landed almost directly below.

90 degree STD2 - 150 rounds - No bouncebacks, occasionally got hit with casings on my right arm, appx 5 out of every 25 rds. Casings landed in a slightly wider area.

For a left-hand shooter, in my case, it seems the 25 degree is the way to go. Though I did not get any bouncebacks with any of the deflectors this time, it doesn't mean I won't get some later. I have one of the original deflectors and it took me several trips to the range before I got a bounceback on it.

 

[SimpleWeaponSolutions]

Freeway, those are some interesting results.

I tested the deflectors with high velocity and standard velocity ammo.
Here is what I have used so far

Federal Automatch 1200 fps
Blazer LRN 1235 fps
CCI Stinger 1640 fps
CCI Mini Mag 1260 fps
CCI Velocitor 1435 fps
CCI Stinger 1640 fps (I really like this ammo)
Remington Viper 1410 fps

With all of this, I only had one bounce back and that was with the 25°

Went to the range yesterday to try the prototypes.

45 degree - 140 rounds - 6 shell casings bounced back into chamber. 5 were smashed by the bolt moving forward.

25 degree - 140 rounds - 13 bounced back into the chamber. Smashed like the previous ones.

90 degree STD1 - 10 rounds - 7 bounced into the chamber. Stopped

90 degree STD2 - 10 rounds - 5 bounced into the chamber. Stopped

Maybe my rifle has a slightly different ejection pattern as well. The 45 degree was the most successful, but none worked perfectly.

That may be an idea! I was using Federal Champion 36g CPHP rounds @ 1260 fps. I do have some standard and low velocity rounds I could try. Of these, does anyone have a recommendation...

Aguila Super Colibri
CCI Green Tag Precision (CCI # 0033)
CCI Segmented 32g (only have 50 of these)
CCI Segmented 40g
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Subsonic HP

On the other end (higher velocity) I could try some of these...
Aguila Super Maximum
CCI Stinger (only have 50 of these)
CCI Velocitor
Winchester Varmint HE 3/1


I have used a lot of these, since I had a good supply, and they have all caused problems...
CCI Blazer
CCI Mini Mag - 40g CPSP
Federal Champion - 36g CPHP
Remington Golden Bullets
Winchester M-22

All of these are just over 1200 fps. So maybe I can try higher and lower. Hope this information helps!

 

[SimpleWeaponSolutions]

So far with the info I have gathered, still waiting on a couple more range reports, it looks like the 45° will be the way to go.

But with some of the varying reports so far, it looks like no matter what is done with the design, it will not work 100% with everyones rifles. There is just to much of a variance between ejection patterns on these rifles.

 

[Majorlk]

So far with the info I have gathered, still waiting on a couple more range reports, it looks like the 45° will be the way to go.

But with some of the varying reports so far, it looks like no matter what is done with the design, it will not work 100% with everyones rifles. There is just to much of a variance between ejection patterns on these rifles.

That is so very true.

I'm wondering if the slots have anything to do with the bounce backs? I have noticed at all deflectors for other firearms are slotless. Next time I go to the range I'm taping over the underside of the 25 degree and see what happens.

 

[Freeway]

The next time I go, I will try putting tape on the 25 and 45 degree deflectors and trying again. Maybe my ejection pattern is throwing the casings forward enough to catch the slots.

 

[cjt50]

Had an opportunity to hit the range yesterday. In tow, a 15-22 rifle, 400 rounds of ammo and 4 SWS prototype brass deflectors.

I have 2 15-22's, so I used my newest one. Less then 1000 rounds shot thru it and no modifications made to rifle. (all stock from factory) my other rifle is heavily modified and well worn in. I only used 5 OEM 10 round short magazines which have feed well over 20k rounds thru the 2 rifles. (well worn, but always work)

All shots were a minimum of 1 second between them. (range rules) I did sneak in a couple double taps with angled deflectors

I started off with the STD-1 deflector and shot 50 rounds of Remington Thunderbolt. On Shot #20, the bolt held open, but the spent brass was still in the chamber area and fell out when the mag was removed. I did have 4 rounds bounce back in to the chamber area, (#31, 37, 43 and 46) causing the classic "stove pipe" stoppage. I did not shot any more with it since the stoppages occurred with regularity.

Next up, STD-2; over all it was better. (but not perfect) I shot 50 rounds of Thunderbolt again and had 2 bounce backs causing stoppages. Shots # 25 and 41 were the culprits. Since I had limited ammo, I moved on...

Next up, the 25 deg deflector; Using this one, I shot 50 rounds of Thunderbolt, 50 rounds of Rem Golden Bullet and 50 rounds or Fed Automatch. I am happy to report that I had no bounce backs at all. The rifle just tick thru all 150 without missing a beat. (Thumbs up!!)

I shot half the rounds right handed and the other left handed. Using a standing stance, I tuck my arms close to my body and found that shooting left handed, my right arm was getting hit regularly with brass. I was wearing a long sleeve shirt so no burns. But the potential was there.

Last but not least, the 45 deg deflector was up. As above, I shot 150 rounds total, (same break down of types fired as 25 deg deflector) Again I am happy to report that I had no bounce backs into the chamber area and again chew thru all of them with out any issues. (Thumbs Up!!)

Again I shot half left and right handed. Shooting lefty, I did have a couple bounce off my right arm, but no where near as frequent as the 25 deg deflector.

Couple additional observations; using the 2 angled deflectors, the brass is ejected downward with purpose. STD-1/2 the brass seemed to dribble out. I also noticed on the 2 angled deflectors, there are marks in the metal where the brass hit it on the way out. The are located about 3/4 of an inch aft of the last slot (cutout) The marks are on both the side and top panels.

Over all, (atleast with my rifle) The 2 angled deflectors presented no issues. I like the looks of the 25 deg one on the rifle as it sits closer to the rifle giving it a cleaner look. (personal preference) However, if the 25 degree one is produced, it will need shorter screws since tighten them all the way down and they poke into the rail slot, actually eliminating the need for the set screw.

Hopefully next week I can test them on my "well worn in" modified rifle to verify the results.


Just realized how long post is, oppsss, (owell,,,,,)

 

[Lorelei]

Freeway,

Your experience with the 25 and 45 degree deflectors seems to be pretty much the opposite of what the rest of us are experiencing.

In spite of having troubles with them they're still working best of the bunch for him. I think the 45 degree will end up being the best overall for almost all of us. I got to try is again today and put 50 rounds of high velocity CCI through it with no issues. I'm hoping to have more time to try high velocity rapid fired this weekend.

 

[Lorelei]

The next time I go, I will try putting tape on the 25 and 45 degree deflectors and trying again. Maybe my ejection pattern is throwing the casings forward enough to catch the slots.

You could also try loosening the mount set screw and moving it fore or aft just a bit.

 

[Gopher Slayer]

I've been working my *** off here at the ranch so I still haven't tested the improved 90 degree plates. I'll be able to use them this weekend though.

 

[Freeway]

You could also try loosening the mount set screw and moving it fore or aft just a bit.

That may work better than the tape. Thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

That may work better than the tape. Thanks!

You're welcome. Please let us know if that helps.

 

[Gopher Slayer]

More Test Results

I'm having one or two bouncebacks per mag with both of the new flat deflector plates.

It looks like the 45 degree setup works best on my 15-22 too. I never had a single issue with it.

Even though I had a couple bouncebacks with the 25 degree setup I still like it better. I never get hit with brass and it just looks good on there.

 

[noxin]

So, what's the plan for the people that purchased the original and are having bounceback issues?

 

[Gopher Slayer]

So, what's the plan for the people that purchased the original and are having bounceback issues?

I can not let you pay for a new one. Everyone that is having problems will receive a new one, for free, once everything is sorted out, or a refund, their choice.

SWS posted this.

 

[noxin]

Thanks for the info Gopher.

Has anyone tried plasti-dipping the original to see if it would make a difference with bouncebacks?

 

[cjt50]

Had a chance to hit the range again today and use the 4 SWS proto-type deflectors.

This time I had my well used 15-22 with me. It has just over 20k rounds thru it and sports an RRA 2 stage trigger instead of the OEM one.

I shot 150 rounds with each of the angled deflector, (50 Rem Thunderbolt, 50 Rem Golden Bullet and 50 Fed Automatch) I also fired 50 round of Thunderbolt with the 2 90 degree deflectors. Results follow;

45 degree deflector had no issues at all

25 degree deflector had no issues except 1 didn't clear the chamber area after the bolt locked back and the brass followed the magazine out.

STD-1 had bounce back on rounds 5, 27 and 42 and the brass didn't clear the chamber area when the bolt locked back on rounds 10, 30, 50.

STD-2 had bounce backs on rounds 25 and 43.

Again, the angled ones seems to be winners, atleast on my 2 rifles.

Alot of the same observations as noted in my earlier post (#338 this thread): http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...-deflector-now-available-7.html#post137404930.

That is all (trying to keep this post shorter then the earlier one )

 

[mk842766]

Well, let's go...

Think it's time to concentrate on the 25 and 45 degree models...the straight 90's still seem to have problems, (although I've never had a bounceback with my original). Seems these two are the way to go, and the 45 seems to work the best for folks. SWS, I love my original, but I'm ready to move forward with one of the angled ones....wattdya say???

 

[bgdv1]

im interested in a 45* one. will you be able to let me know when they become available?

 

[SimpleWeaponSolutions]

Think it's time to concentrate on the 25 and 45 degree models...the straight 90's still seem to have problems, (although I've never had a bounceback with my original). Seems these two are the way to go, and the 45 seems to work the best for folks. SWS, I love my original, but I'm ready to move forward with one of the angled ones....wattdya say???

Good to hear the original is working perfectly for you.

As for the new design I am not going to rush it out. I want to make sure my current customers and future customers get something that works.

im interested in a 45* one. will you be able to let me know when they become available?

Send an email to [email protected] and I will add you to the notification list.

 

[Jyezahn]

I agree with the above. It seems that there is a lot of variance in the testing results, and we are still awaiting some results from different scenarios. I'm all for not rushing it. (Of course, that may be because I'm a tester!)

 

[Majorlk]

I went back out to the range last week with the 90 degree deflectors. I covered the slots on the inside with a piece of duct tape to see if that had any effect upon the bounce back problem. It reduced them noticably, but did not eliminate them.

I also taped the inside of the 25 degree deflector and and it eliminated the occasional bounce back completely. This lends support to my theory that the rims are catching in the slots and throwing them back, rather than down. I have noticed that all deflectors for ARs, SKs and AKs are solid, not slotted.

Again, no problem with the 45 degree deflector at all.

 

[Freeway]

I went back out to the range last week with the 90 degree deflectors. I covered the slots on the inside with a piece of duct tape to see if that had any effect upon the bounce back problem. It reduced them noticably, but did not eliminate them.

I also taped the inside of the 25 degree deflector and and it eliminated the occasional bounce back completely. This lends support to my theory that the rims are catching in the slots and throwing them back, rather than down. I have noticed that all deflectors for ARs, SKs and AKs are solid, not slotted.

Again, no problem with the 45 degree deflector at all.

I plan on making a range visit this week. I will try the duct tape idea on the 25 and 45 deflectors. I also plan on moving each of them forward for an experiment as the slots are on the forward half. Maybe the slots are causing the bounce backs.

Still think that mine just has a 'unique' ejection pattern. The 45 has been the best, with the 25 coming in second place. After getting to the range, I will post my results here.

 

[Jyezahn]

I wonder if more of a swooping curved angle instead of a hard angle might help. Like the underside of a hang-glider or the inside of a wave tube? Just throwing the idea out there.

 

[Freeway]

Well... surprises do happen!

Went to the range this morning to try the deflectors again, and here are my results. I set both deflectors farther forward than before. This time, I lined up the solid part of each deflector with the opening in the receiver so that none of the slots were in the ejection path.

25 degree
CCI Tactical - 70 rounds NO bounce backs
Federal Champion 36g CPHP - 70 rounds NO bounce backs

45 degree
CCI Tactical - 90 rounds NO bounce backs
Federal Champion 36g CPHP - 70 rounds NO bounce backs

300 total rounds without a single bounce back! I did notice that not all of the shell casings went in the same direction, but most of them did.


Now for the bad news... my Kimber Rimfire Target is having issues loading rounds. It was perfect a few days ago, and is the first problem I've ever had. The rounds leave the magazine, but do not fully load. They stop about where the lead meets the shell case. Happens on every magazine.

 

[Majorlk]

This supports my contention that the slots are a part, if not the total, problem.

 

[Freeway]

Tried sending a few more rounds down range today.

280 rounds - 2 bounce backs

Tried the following rounds...
Aguila Interceptor
Aguila Sniper Subsonic 60g
Aguila Super Maximum
CCI Tactical
Federal Champion 36g CPHP

Just used the 45 degree deflector, with it still mounted so that the slots do not cover the opening.

Almost 600 rounds with only 2 bounce backs. MUCH better than before!

 

[Lorelei]

Mine has stayed perfect with the 45 degree. I've taken it off and back on the gun a couple of times and don't pay much attention to how the slots line up. With the 45 degree it works no matter how they line up. The 25 degree it a little more finicky.

 

[Bulldogg]

Hopefully the 45* ones will be available soon, as I had quite a few stove pipes with the original design at the range. Funny thing with the two rifles I have, my wife's rifle had twice as many stove pipes as I did and we both used the same ammo. Each rifle probably has a slightly different ejection pattern.