Take pity on a no-nothing on M1917s

[Mstorm]

I've got a nice 19, 66, 67, 31, 13, 10 and on and on but last night was watching the movie FURY and thought: "now that's an interesting pistol" (( Pitts Colt Model 1917 )) and via google learned S&W made one as well, so off to the races I went trying to learn.
So, my brilliant fellow Smith fans if you were going to get one of these, what would you be looking for as a "let's get started piece"?????
For example, military marked or civilian, rough or semi-rough (since I assume the pristine ones are very expensive),etc, etc
My thanks in advance for your guidance

 

[Muley Gil]

Brazilian 1917s are generally cheaper than WW I era us issued 1917s.

If you want a shooter, look for one with a good bore and make sure, if it is military, it has all of the markings on it, especially the serial number stamped on the butt.

Go here, scroll down half way to the 1917 section and read all the posts:


Notable Thread Index

 

[dsf]

At the risk of going off the reservation, I'd go with a Colt rather than a Smith.

A Smith 1917 is substantially the same as a commercial N frame of the same period. Nice finish and wood grips of the same style. The Colt is finished much more roughly than the New Service types and doesn't carry checkered wood or hard plastic grips. You might even find a real early one with the chambers bored through & through - a little different.

 

[murphydog]

I have handled both a Colt and S & W 1917. Either makes for a nice addition to a collection but the DA pull on the Colt has to be experienced to be believed...must be 15+ pounds and gets heavier at the end of the trigger stroke. Yikes.

 

[steelslaver]

Plus the colt has those "wonderful" little v shaped spring.

The Brazilians used to be all over the place cheap. Those are usually a bit beat up but they are pretty rugged and still function well. The barrels never had very deep rifling and sources of replacements have dried up, so look at that.

A set of grips like that made in service style configuration would be fairly easy to make. Using some thick Lexan, get the 1/2 rounded part at the top right, then hold in place and scribe the outline of the frame, glue pictures of your favorite babe to the back. Then with the grip pin out use the frame as a guide to drill a shallow hole at that location and another matched set for the main grip screw/ Round edges and polish.

Pristine military examples are kind of steep because being built to serve a real need the finish was secondary, then most of them were issues and thee finish went down hill from there. But,, to me a finish worn one of these says may well have seen real war more than a pristine does

 

[andyinlz]

Are You Certain?

Oddly, I was also watching Fury yesterday.......and thought "What a nice S&W pistol he just used to shoot that SS guy".

But, then, I didn't stop the show, zoom into the scene, etc.

What say our movie weapons fans about his pistol?

 

[murphydog]

Yup, he had a S & W 1917 Army.

 

[quinn]

Unleess you're a military collector, I'd vote for the commercial 1917s as used by a number of PDs. They are not as easily found as there weren't nearly as many of them. But there doesn't seem to be much price differential due to all the military issued gun collectors. JMHO and happy hunting...the chase is the best part!

 

[sodacan]

The asking prices for military 1917's are all over the place. Condition of course is everything, but there are some ridiculous prices out there for guns in only fair condition. I'm a huge fan of them. Both of these are totally original, and they are in very nice condition. The S&W may have never been issued, and is a much more refined gun than the Colt, which reflects the need to quickly produce guns for wartime needs. It also has a tractor pull double action, as mentioned above. They are really fun shooters, and it's very cool to shoot a piece of history.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

1917's can be found somewhat reasonably priced especially if they have been refinished like this Brazilian:

Or heavily modified like this Commercial:

 

[hkcavalier]

They are an interesting minefield for sure, and still plenty of all-original guns with "been there" finish and wear. I would hunt one of those as finding a nearly mint example will be difficult.

This early example cost me less than $850 in 2021. Early guns will (usually) have concave (dished) grips and a grooved hammer.

 

[2152hq]

I have a S&W 1917 that was badly polished and reblued. Who ever did the work decided the 'United States Property' marking on the bottom of the bbl had to go. Not uncommon to see that.
So that was filed off and not nicely. Leaving a rough flat area there.
The Govt insp mark(?) GHD? on the left upper side of the frame was nearly gone as well.
But it has a decent set of Service style checkered S&W grips (non-medallion). The bore ,,those pesky peppery pits here and there. Lock work very nice.
All for $240,,I thought the grips were nearly worth that.

So here I am in the middle of polishing the old gal back up.
Plenty of hours of hand work, the belt grinder doesn't get used much on a DA Revolver aside from the top strap and side plates. It does a great job on the cylinder however but you can ruin one in a few seconds as well.

Worth it,,No not really. About 25+ hours of polishing now.
The grips finished up nice and will need re-checkering.

Then what?. Just reblue it,,or maybe some engraving and then reblue it.
I could re-cut all the missing US markings, but there are plenty of orig revolvers still around. This one is nothing special. Alvin York didn't carry it AFAIK.
But I just can't let them be.

It's a nice project. Just another one to do and finish up. There are plenty more.
Better than sitting in front of the TV.

 

[JH1951]

At one time we were all "know-nothings", so don't feel bad about asking questions.
As stated above by Sodacan, condition is everything, and prices are all over the place. My suggestion is to go with a S&W 1917 (this reflects my bias in favor of S&W over Colt in general terms). As for 'condition', get the best that you can afford. You will thank yourself later for getting a quality piece.
I have had many through the years and am down to owning two. One is an about mint USGI, and the other a well used Brazilian. They both serve me well; one for admiring and showing, and one to take to the range for pure shooting enjoyment. As for "value over time", the mint one has far surpassed the Brazilian in value accumulation. So, your reasons for ownership should play a big role in what you set your sights on to acquire. Then patience while researching prices and values of the ones that scratch your itch. It is very easy to overspend due to the wide spread in prices. You may do well placing a WTB listing here on the Forum.....
Eye candy is always good for motivating -
Here is the Brazilian range king (SN 191745 which I found pleasing as well):
View attachment 667898

And here is a USGI:
View attachment 667903

 

[raljr1]

Figure on spending the better part of $1000 to get a decent one, unless you find one at a local show or shop. Seems to me that even beaters are closed $800 based on what I see. The Smith will work without moon clips, not sure the colt will, something about how the chambers are reamed.

I have seen a few Brazilians and some pitted units down around $600 considering shipping, etc.

Here's one I got six years ago. I have a little over $500 in it after getting some proper grips on it. Those deals seem to be gone.

 

[murphydog]

They are an interesting minefield for sure, and still plenty of all-original guns with "been there" finish and wear. I would hunt one of those as finding a nearly mint example will be difficult.

This early example cost me less than $850 in 2021. Early guns will (usually) have concave (dished) grips and a grooved hammer.

Yes, by report the milled hammer is seen up to about SN 13000, and the concave upper stocks to about 25000.

 

[teletech]

Colts won't work without moon clips and are vastly harder to work on.
The Smiths will work without moon clips, you just have to pick the cases out.
In any case, buy a mooner-demooner tool. I like the BMT despite the cost.
The 1917 had very slight rifling, so it's common to see them basically a smoothbore by now. So if I were going to look at one to shoot, I'd check bore condition over most other criterion. In my experience because of the shallow rifling they shoot jacketed bullets much better than cast, of course the jacketed bullets also wear the comparatively soft and shallow rifling, so maybe don't expect a 1917 to be a great gun to shoot bullseye with.
I typically find the triggers to be heavy on the military guns, perhaps slightly better on the commercial and Brazilian guns.
I do think if you are going to get one to enjoy, the US-Property marked guns are just a lot more interesting as living history and for me that justifies the higher cost, but if you just want a shooter then save the money.
A 1917 was one of the Indiana Jones guns from the first movie, or rather a commercial one, so there's that angle as well.

 

[Hawg Rider]

This is another case of personal preference. I love the fact that my Model of 1917 is a WWI revolver from 1918. Did it see combat? Perhaps, but who knows for sure? But just the chance that its provenance includes service during the Great War in Europe is appealing to me. I feel fortunate that I got this from my lgs ten years ago for less than $700. Is the S&W 1917 a better revolver than the Colt? I think so, but again, that's just my opinion. Mine is a great shooter and occasionally goes to the range with its .45 ACP brothers. There are still plenty of nice Model of 1917 revolvers out there. You might even want to advertise in the Forum's "Want to Buy" section and see what happens. Good luck with your search.

 

[Muley Gil]

At the risk of going off the reservation, I'd go with a Colt rather than a Smith.

A Smith 1917 is substantially the same as a commercial N frame of the same period. Nice finish and wood grips of the same style. The Colt is finished much more roughly than the New Service types and doesn't carry checkered wood or hard plastic grips. You might even find a real early one with the chambers bored through & through - a little different.

1917 S&Ws also had smooth walnut grips, not the checkered service grips. .455 S&Ws DID ship to the Brits with checkered grips.



Colts won't work without moon clips and are vastly harder to work on.


The early Colt 1917s did have straight bored cylinders that required the use of the half-moon clips. It is my understanding that Colt replaced most of these cylinders with chambered cylinders. Over the years, I've looked at a number of Colt 1917s and have never encountered one that was straight bored.

 

[bigmtnman]

These two have been my favorite way to send some 45 acp downrange. The Brazilian was a "pitted" bargain years ago. The Colt (arsenal refinish black parkerization) is not bored through and will shoot just fine without clips as does the S&W. There is no quicker reload for a revolver than these with the full moon clips. Both shoot dead on to point of aim. The Colt pull is HEAVY as has been mentioned. If I was fighting in a WW1 trench and ran out of ammo for my 1917, I'd want it to be the COLT. It would make the much better CLUB !

 

[OutAtTheEdge]

Brazilian 1917

I've had this Brazilian for about 45 years now. Back when I was newly married and working at the LGS, I decided I wanted to collect me some Smith & Wessons. So, I started gathering a few, mostly NIB guns in nickel. I had a presentation cased 6" M27, a 4" M19, a M39, and a 4" SB M34, along with this ratty old 1917.

And then the babies came, and, long story as short as possible at this point, most of my guns went to pay for diapers and food and rent and such. I did, however, manage to keep the Brazilian, mostly because it didn't have much value at that time. As old Smiths go, it's still not all that valuable by comparison, but it's stayed with me all these years, and it will always have an honored spot in my safe.