Talking points to rationally discuss......

[Hillbilly77]

gun control issues with everyone. Lots of people just start yelling, don't seem to want to listen to what we call facts and what they call propaganda.

I have learned that there is a huge difference between the "NONS" and the "ANTIS". This can be true for ANY topic of debate.
A "non" can be talked to and valid points can be brought up.
An "anti" is unwilling to hear the other side's points at all.

For instance, I talked to a woman that was a non-hunter (not an anti) once. She was loaded with false pre-conceived ideas about hunters. She looked at us all as a bunch of redneck weekend warriors out in the woods, just blasting away at sounds and movements with glee.
I explained to her that she was mistaken. I explained that I understood the weight of taking an animal's life, and that I felt a personal responsibility to deliver a quick, painless death, and to treat the animal with respect, etc.
When I took the time to politely explain to her why I hunted, and how, I was able to convince her that she was mistaken in her ideas. She actually admitted that she was wrong in her assumptions and THANKED me for taking the time to explain a hunter's point of view to her.

The point is, that she was a "non", not an "anti".
Little good can be done by trying to argue with an anti. They are usually unwilling to hear it. If we act mad, nasty, and antagonistic, we only serve to convince them that they were right all along. The best approach is politely disagree and leave it at that.

The lesson I have learned is that we need to pick our battles, and be respectful. We won't sway an anti. I think the best we can do is to educate the "nons" and prevent them from becoming "antis".

 

[dougb1946]

Glad you think so sir. As of yet i have not been able to
find "any" to hold a conversation and explain to me the
merits of Gun Control in a rational manner.

My point was that there are liberals who carry, rabid liberals who actually own and use guns and are pro 2A. Granted, some of their ideas are strange, but some conservative pro 2A site are a little strange also. Lumping all liberals as anti 2A is a mistake. There are probably conservatives that are anti 2A.

There are and have been some who would be called
"Trolls" on this fine "pro-gun" site.

Disagreement or questioning is not "trolling", it is disagreement or questioning.

If my views of wanting to keep my arms makes me "Extremist" in your eyes so be it.

I own and use firearms. I possible qualify as having an arsenal. A small arsenal, but nice. I would like to keep my firearms. Never said anyone here was an extremist. I said that extremists on both sides of the fence bother me.

Maybe those with higher education do not have all
the answers after all ???

No they don't. And the more education they have, the more likely they are to know they don't have all the answers. But higher education leading to liberal tendencies is a fact ,(College Makes Students More Liberal, but Not Smarter About Civics - Research - The Chronicle of Higher Education) not an accusation, and may be due to propaganda, wider world view, or some other cause. I don't see people as one dimensional. I live in a rural town near a college town and see a lot of the liberal and conservative extremes. I also see the majority of people who are more moderate in their views, and are a blend of liberal on some topics, conservative on others.

 

[feralmerril]

Have you ever known anyone to change their mind on anything? A person has their mind made up on any controversal subject and when challanged on it automaticly protect their view. On politics I cant understand all the money put in tv ads trying to get votes. Once we know who all the canidates are, where they are comeing from, how many change their minds nine months later?
What I cant understand is people that still follow certain politicians that are caught in repeated lies and still defend them.
The other day I was talking to a left leaning younger woman and she was bragging up on some socialist professer at her collage who had gave a talk on how peaceful people were suppose to be compared to now that had lived 10,000 years ago. I asked her how he knew that as it was like 6,000 years before any recorded history? That did shake her for a few secounds and then she changed the subject.
Maybe you can influence a very young person or kid, but save your breath on anyone much older than 15 as a person already has their moral compass dialed in by then and wont change their course with facts. The ONLY times I have seen it is when a unGodly person converts to christanity.

 

[Rule3]

The Earth is FLAT

The Earth is the Center of the Universe

The Sun revolves around the Earth

Don't try and change my mind.

 

[jkc]

The Earth is FLAT

The Earth is the Center of the Universe

The Sun revolves around the Earth

Don't try and change my mind.

Who are you, so wise in the ways of science?

 

[V-35]

Many years ago a now deceased friend of mine quoted me something that I have never forgoten & I beleive is even more relevant now than then;

"A man convinced against his will,
Is of the same opinion still"


Art

 

[Fat Old Guy]

The problem that I often see is that conservatives are busy doing things like running companies or building bridges or fighting wars so they don't have the time or inclination to memorize tons of obscure facts. So when a liberal yells, "Don't you realize that 50,000 children die from gun accidents every day!" we don't have facts to counter that. Even if we do have facts at hand, the liberals will usually yell rude things and then walk away.

Often a gun control proponent will lead with "What's the matter with common sense gun laws?" To which I will reply, "What's your idea of common sense?" The list starts: criminals can't own guns, crazy people can't own guns, no machine guns, background checks . . . When I explain that we already have those on the books as well as hundreds of other laws, I often get called a liar. If I offer to give them my copies of ATF's pubs on gun laws, they usually cry out "Male bovine excrement!" and stomp off.

 

[nipster]

The problem that I often see is that conservatives are busy doing things like running companies or building bridges or fighting wars so they don't have the time or inclination to memorize tons of obscure facts. So when a liberal yells, "Don't you realize that 50,000 children die from gun accidents every day!" we don't have facts to counter that. Even if we do have facts at hand, the liberals will usually yell rude things and then walk away.

Often a gun control proponent will lead with "What's the matter with common sense gun laws?" To which I will reply, "What's your idea of common sense?" The list starts: criminals can't own guns, crazy people can't own guns, no machine guns, background checks . . . When I explain that we already have those on the books as well as hundreds of other laws, I often get called a liar. If I offer to give them my copies of ATF's pubs on gun laws, they usually cry out "Male bovine excrement!" and stomp off.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make these statements and assumptions:

1. there are just as many liberals out there "running companies or building bridges or fighting wars". To say otherwise is bogus

2. there are just as many conservatives that will have the same reaction when you try to reason with them about abortion, religion and a multitude of other so called "morality" issues

3. there are plenty of gun loving and toting liberals out there, they probably outnumber the vocal minority who make our lives difficult when some idiot decides to go on a shooting spree

 

[rags]

And on that note....the horse is dead.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

1. there are just as many liberals out there "running companies or building bridges or fighting wars". To say otherwise is bogus

There might be a few but I'd never say "just as many." Liberals run foundations and look for ways to give people things that they didn't earn. Conservatives work.

2. there are just as many conservatives that will have the same reaction

That hasn't been my experience but I'm one of those wishy-washy conservatives who is just to the right of G. Gordon Liddy.

there are plenty of gun loving and toting liberals out there, they probably outnumber the vocal minority who make our lives difficult when some idiot decides to go on a shooting spree

There are a few and the ones that I have met were in favor of one or more of the following: magazine limits, assault rifle bans, registration, licensing, and a "needs" test.

 

[DeathGrip]

And on that note....the horse is dead.

Sounds rational but we'll see.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

And on that note....the horse is dead.

That's good because beating a living horse is against the law.

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

And on that note....the horse is dead.

Did a bear kill the horse? Hope springs eternal!

Hog

 

[DeathGrip]

Did a bear kill the horse? Hope springs eternal!

Hog

I was thinking a big monkey.

Good night Ladies and Germs.

 

[A10]

Horsehide makes good holsters........

 

[MP22]

Is this an example of name calling or labeling. There are a lot of pro 2A gun owners and gun carriers out there who are well educated and perfectly able to listen to and argue from the facts of a situation. Frankly, the extreme views of conservatives scare me as much as the extreme views of liberals. As a side light, it seems higher education leads to developing liberal tendencies-something to think about.

Talking about rhetoric....wow....that's comical at best.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

The Earth is FLAT
The Earth is the Center of the Universe
The Sun revolves around the Earth
Don't try and change my mind.

Since I have no direct knowledge that the Earth is not flat or that the Sun does not revolve around the Earth, I am in the same position as the people of old who had to take the word of priests and shamans about the structure of the universe. I have to take the word of the modern priests and shamans, those that we call scientists.

I have never observed a quark or even a proton. For all we know gravity is not some invisible force caused by the attraction of matter but in reality things are held down by sprites who cling to the Earth with their toes and clutch you with their bony fingers.

 

[chud333]

Is this an example of name calling or labeling. There are a lot of pro 2A gun owners and gun carriers out there who are well educated and perfectly able to listen to and argue from the facts of a situation. Frankly, the extreme views of conservatives scare me as much as the extreme views of liberals. As a side light, it seems higher education leads to developing liberal tendencies-something to think about.

And my point has been proved. Read above.

Chuck