Target hammer??

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larryofcc

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Just bought an early K38 Target Masterpiece # K104712. It is the heavy bbl. type and is 100% matching. All numbered parts are correct. According to my S&W book, the target hammer came out in 1952 and this is a 1950-1951 revolver with the target hammer.
Is the revolver too early for a TH? I will letter it later. Thanks, Big Larry

standard.jpg
 
I would not worry about the dates in the books too much. Often times they are guesstimates based on observed examples. It is also possible that a prior owner decided to upgrade the gun once the TH's came out.

I own a K-22 that came without a TH or TT and a gun buddy of mine and my S&W mentor bought them for me for my birthday and installed them.

Upgrades like this do not have the stigma attached to them like a refinish does or at least they don't IMHO.

Nice looking revolver. Enjoy.
 
Neat K-38 ;)
IIRC the proper nomenclature for your version is the S&W "K-38 Heavy Masterpiece".

IMO target hammer can be factory original time wise but only way to know for sure is with a letter.
On a side note you have the period correct style Magnas with "High shoulders" , give them a close look as you are bordering the period between the earlier standard nickel brass medallions and the plastic ones that appear for a very short time.
 
Thanks guys. I just bought this revolver and it is being shipped from Calif. to Utah, so I probably won't get it until Monday. As you can tell by the picture it is a good 98%+. Even the cylinder and bbl. are numbered to the gun besides the high horn magnas.
I also have a 1949 version NIB with the light bbl. It is drippy mint.
In my collection I also have a MIB 38 Combat Masterpiece shipped in 1953 that letters with a target hammer, and walnut target stocks. It goes on to say, the target triggers came out much later. When I have it in hand, I will answer all the questions. Now, all I need is a heavy bbl K22 5 screw. Thanks all. Big Larry
 
NOW YOU SEE IT---NOW YOU DON'T

No guarantees, but I believe the "Heavy" nomenclature is applicable to the wide rib K-22.

In the beginning (of post-war K frame targets) all three had narrow ribs----and different weights. The lunatic fringe fussed about the different weights. S&W responded with a wide rib K-32 and K-38----which weighed essentially the same as the narrow rib K-22. All is well---but not for long.

Enter once again the lunatic fringe who fussed about the narrow rib K-22. S&W responded with a wide rib (and heavier barrel) K-22, which I believe was referred to as the "Heavy" Masterpiece. Perhaps weary of the lunatic fringe, S&W sold both the narrow rib K-22 and the wide rib K-22 for a spell side by side----leaving the fringe nothing to fuss about----for awhile at least.

The wide rib K-22 outsold the narrow rib K-22 by a wide margin---and S&W dropped the narrow rib K-22 from the line-up-----leaving the three K frame Masterpieces once again with different weights. I reckon the lunatic fringe was tired---or at least didn't fuss much about the "new" weight imbalance----and they all lived happily ever after.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, these three K frames which "weighed the same" weighed (essentially) the same------------loaded. As a card carrying member of the lunatic fringe, I have mused about fussing about the mismatched weights once the first round was fired from each. I thought better of it, only for fear of commitment proceedings.
 
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The new wider rib weight matched K-32 and K-38 versions first appear in the 1950 AMC as the "K-32 & K-38 HEAVY Masterpiece alongside the earlier style 6" narrow rib K-22_K-32_K38 Masterpiece revolvers .

The new wider rib K-32 and K-38 supplemented the older narrow rib versions for a while but the new wide rib K-22 doesnt appear until 1955 and very quickly replaced the older narrow rib version.

On a side note the K-38 and K-22 Combat masterpiece continued with the old style narrow rib tapered barrel until the dash 5 revision.
 
You guys know so many unique details that sometimes its scary. I just can't keep track of all of these little changes in my head. If I tried I think that my head would explode. Usually I have to copy and print these posts for future reference.

I can still remember my NJ drivers license number from 1970 but these details just escape my sieve of a brain. :eek:
 
My K38 is due to be shipped today. When I alluded to the target hammer as being from 1952, I was quoting from a factory letter from Mr. Jinks. My letter was for my K-32, shipped 10-1952. He stated in the letter that, that was the 1st year for the target hammer. I don't know why he added that as my K-32 has no options, but it is the heavy type. I re read my S&W book where it states the target hammer came out in 1949, so I am quite sure my new treasure came with one. A letter will confirm or deny this.
In any event, this revolver is close to mint. Now to find a correct box. Big Larry
 
Ralph, The wider the rib, the heavier the gun. The bigger the bore, the lighter the gun, soooo . . . as stated above, the the K32 and K38 had the wider ribs, while the K22 remained the same.

I have a K38 Heavy Masterpiece, with serial number K107,6XX which shipped in July, 1951 with a target hammer and trigger. I also added a set of Target stocks for the range. The box for the gun has a glued on label, since the company was apparently still using up old boxes.
 

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I checked my All Model Circulars and the earliest date I could find with a reference to a target hammer and target stocks for the Masterpiece line of revolvers is January 1950. An AMC printed in April 1949 has no reference to TH and TS, so I would estimate they first became available sometime in the second half of 1949.

Bill
 
I KNOW!---I KNOW!!

glowe said:
Ralph, The wider the rib, the heavier the gun. The bigger the bore, the lighter the gun, soooo . . . as stated above, the the K32 and K38 had the wider ribs, while the K22 remained the same.

I have a K38 Heavy Masterpiece, with serial number K107,6XX which shipped in July, 1951 with a target hammer and trigger. I also added a set of Target stocks for the range. The box for the gun has a glued on label, since the company was apparently still using up old boxes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know all that (The wider the rib, the heavier the gun.--etc.)----chapter and verse. I was commenting on the use of the term "Heavy"---in describing a particular "Masterpiece" revolver (22/32/38). I had it in my head the term "Heavy" was used only in conjunction with the wide rib K-22---I still have it in my head.

As it happens, that's the only place I have it. After the fact of running my mouth, I went looking for some backup----didn't find any---neither to confirm nor deny. I suspect the term "Heavy" may have been used in the brochures of the time when both K-22's (narrow and wide rib) were being sold---to differentiate between the two. But that's all I do---suspect, because I didn't find diddly to confirm/deny.

Actually, I did find something to confirm or deny; but it was an illegible photograph---so out of focus as to be worthless---but there it was anyway. It was a picture of the end of a box (gold with blue)----and it said "Heavy Masterpiece". The bad news is I couldn't make out which one (which caliber).
And having now said that, it occurs to me I have several such K frame gold with blue boxes upstairs in my box box------I'll have a look. Maybe----just maybe----------------------

On to perhaps more important matters---it's a pretty good bet the world is not going to end tomorrow.

Ralph Tremaine
 
In looking through the invoices for the first half of the 1950s, I find the terms K-38 Masterpiece Heavy Barrel and K-22 Masterpiece (no reference to a heavy barrel).

Bill
 
Perhaps someone in the "paper" crowd has some brochures from the period that will tell us what's what.

Ralph Tremaine
 
The word "Heavy" was added to identify the weight matched (Wider rib) K-32 and K-38 masterpiece models because they were being marketed alongside the older narrow rib K-32 and K-38 from around 1949-1954.

Since the K-32 and K-38 "Heavy" Masterpiece revolvers were weight matched to the narrow rib K-22 there was no need for a K-22 "Heavy" Masterpiece (yet).

About the same time that the older narrow rib K-32 and K-38 are discontinued (late 54 ish ?) a new version of the K-22 appears (early 1955 ish ?) with the new style square frame shoulders mating to a slightly wider barrel rib that looks like the K-32 Heavy barrel rib (K-38 rib is much wider).

The older narrow rib / notched shoulder frame did continue on the Combat Masterpiece to mate to its 4" narrow rib barrel but guessing perhaps it was easier to just use a wider rib barrel with square shoulders where it meets the barrel rib for the K-22 as well so it matched cosmetically with its larger bore 6" siblings .
 
Well, there we have it-----BOTH the .32 & .38 were referred to as "heavy" at this point in time------and if you wanted a "heavy" .22 you were plumb out of luck----at this point in time. Then along came the "heavy" .22---according to me.

And if you wanted something heavier, you could get an Outdoorsman (.38)-------with a narrow rib---and/or the same only different, a Model 1950 (.45---or .44)----and so it goes.

Ralph Tremaine

I got my "heavy" K-22 shortly after the time of this brochure---first brand new gun (not counting a Christmas present of a Remington single shot .22 rifle when I was 12).
 
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If you look at the brochure closely, the guns on the left were matched by SIZE with weights differing by 3/4 oz and 2 1/2 ozs.

The guns shown on the right are matched by weight with the K 32 and K38 being increased to 38 1/2 ozs. to match the already heavier K22 of same weight.

There was no need to refer to the K 22 as a HEAVY as it always was a heavier gun. It was only the newly designed K32 and K38 that had to become heavy to match.

It is interesting to me that the smaller caliber gun was heavier to begin with as one would assume that a larger caliber frame and barrel would be made heavier to handle the larger caliber. Obviously, that was not the case.

Apparently, due to complaints outlined above by Ralph, the 32 and 38 were weight increased so that shooting any of these guns would feel the same at least weight wise. Certainly not the same once the trigger was pulled. :eek:
 
Target Hammer

Looks like it's probably factory, but I once bought a K22 that someone put in a TH and trigger in, AFU, sent to Smith, they fitted them. I found an M19 at a dealer shop, 2.5" that had TH and TT installed with a yellow front sight. Perfect setup, but I didn't have a need or the cash. Would've loved it. Don't kid yourself, snubs are accurate. I had a 12-2 from OH Corrections, had Pachmyer target Grips on it. I replaced em with original kind. Also, don't know when it occurred, but 12's went to wider frames as other K's, still light Frame. One I had was extremely accurate. K Frame snubs are great. Looking for a reasonably priced 15, 2". Going for big bucks compared to 4"

at
 
It is of no real consequence if it is not original. Standard speed hammers are available to change this one out if not lettered with the target hammer, but I am willing to bet it was shipped with a target hammer. It is amazing though, it still retains it's numbered magnas. In those days, most shooters had the big thumb rest stocks and threw the magnas away. Just like the box. Gone forever. My Dad was a competitive shooter in the early 50's and I can remember those big thumb rest stocks on his K-38. Email shows it is in Cedar and will be delivered today. Now, to find a heavy bbl. 5 screw K22. Has eluded me for years just as the K-38. Big Larry
 
This Harry Jarvis engraved k38 in same serial number range came with this same style target hammer. They seem to be a little thinner in profile, and extend further back.



Charlie
 
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JSR III said:
.... It is interesting to me that the smaller caliber gun was heavier to begin with as one would assume that a larger caliber frame and barrel would be made heavier to handle the larger caliber. Obviously, that was not the case.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that they could use the same barrel forging, and external machining for all three calibers. The only difference would be in the gun drilling and rifling operations.

I also think that later, when all three calibers used the heavier, non-tapered barrels, that was probably initiated to eliminate a step in milling the contour of the tapered barrel. The tapered barrels required an extra milling operation, whereas the non- tapered barrels could be milled with just one.

Mark
 
Engine49guy said:
Neat K-38 ;)
IIRC the proper nomenclature for your version is the S&W "K-38 Heavy Masterpiece".

IMO target hammer can be factory original time wise but only way to know for sure is with a letter.
On a side note you have the period correct style Magnas with "High shoulders" , give them a close look as you are bordering the period between the earlier standard nickel brass medallions and the plastic ones that appear for a very short time.
Click to expand...

Nickel Brass. Big Larry
 
Revolver here. Understated by seller it is a true 99% revolver with a very think turn line and no wear whatsoever. Not even on the muzzle. Recoil shield shows no hint of it being fired. Now, for that heavy bbl. K-22 5 screw to match. Big Larry
 
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