Testing my P320 for Undesired Discharge

[Mainsail]

My P320 in .357Sig is a 2015 model and went home for the voluntary recall in 2017. I've never had any problem with it whatsoever.

After the numerous reports of guns going off in holsters I put mine in the safe, unloaded. The killer part is I have some really nice holsters for it and plenty of mags. Yeah yeah, the jury is still out on those, I get it. My belief is that almost all the stories of P320s going off in holsters are cover for a negligent discharge, but one or two might be real, and that's too many for me.

The innards of these guns are not machined; the parts are all stamped so I imagine tolerance-stacking may be behind the problem (if there really is one). In other words, my P320 might never go off unintentionally, but the very next one that came off the assembly line might.

The drop-discharge issue surfaced around 2017 and various people tested their guns themselves, and found there to be a real problem the Sig engineers were not aware of. That saved me the trouble of dropping my gun if nothing else.

This time around nobody seems to be coming up with a fair test for the latest issue. I figure a paint shaker might be traumatic enough to coax a discharge out of the gun, if there was one in there.

I primed a case, chambered it, and stuffed the pistol into an empty paint can lined with foam. The gun was not packed tight, but hand-shaking the can doesn't cause the gun to move much.

So round one was the chambered primed case, no magazine, shaken for two minutes, the can rotated 180 degrees and shaken for another two minutes. After, I pried open the can and checked the case; no marks on the primer at all.

Round two was the same empty primed case chambered but with a full magazine inserted. This time it was shaken for three minutes, the can rotated, and I left it shaking for six and a half minutes while I attended to another unrelated chore. After prying the can open and removing the magazine, the primer was again unmarked much less discharged. I then chambered the empty case and discharged the primer (it was louder than I thought it would be).

So that was my test, as much as I could do before the rain started falling hard.

I'm comfortable that the gun isn't going to "just go off" in my holster or out of it. So the P320 is back in the EDC lineup.

 

[bobsguns]

Haven't the majority of the ND's been from LEO reports? I would wonder how much gun handling experience played a hand in those ND's?

I own & carry several different Sig models. All are top quality, both in parts & build. So, I'm not certain what to believe on these reports.

I would tend to think the 320 model's sales have dropped greatly though.

My .o2

 

[LVSteve]

I'm liking the paint shaker test setup.

 

[petepeterson]

I'm liking the paint shaker test setup.

Seems like you could set up a good side gig for the military.
"Civilian contractor." I hear it pays well.

 

[CRT2]

If the trigger isn’t pulled (manipulated) the P320 does not fire. Use a holster designed for the model P320 you have. Weapon lights on the pistol and associated holsters seem to be problematic.

 

[hardluk1]

I had an early production p320 compact 40. That pistol was Ok for me for 7 years as one of my rotation but as I got older I finally decided to order a 9mm pistol . So when siggly advertised a new to the market at the time -P320X Compact 9mm I got on our gun shops early order list . After it came in I found out the barrel was no longer a 3.9" on this compact AND it had the same very limited chamber support the early X5 models had after firing only a couple loads . So this new pistol went home for an "upgrade " but SIG CS stated it was in spec ?! Not hardly . Do not say BS as you can find plenty of photos of early X5 with bulged and some blown brass on sig forums. I also do think much of siggly and there Updates when the problems with drop safe and these early X pistol s barrels should have been a recall .

It did not wait long after sig stated mine X Compact barrel was in spec for me to have my dealer call for a sig rep to show up at my dealer so I could show him the barrel's lack of support and the fired brass . He worked out some deal with our gun shop as the siggly X compact of mine was taken away with him and I issued a credit for the Siggly X compact thru my dealer for a different brand handgun or another sig . It took sig a couple months the get around to replacing those early 9mm X barrels .

I ordered a m&p 4" compact 9mm optic ready with thumb safety as a replacement . Sold my siggly compact 40sw too as I lost all trust in them and there lack of testing and went back to my old M&P 4.25 40sw . I will not own another sig product but if your happy , good for you.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I am not sure why people think it's a good idea to carry a firearm that is the functional equivalent of a chambered Series-80 1911 with the grip safety pinned and the thumb safety off.

 

[erikpolcrack]

I have and regularly use and enjoy an M17 and a P365XL. I ordered the MS manual safety version in each case. They will not ever fire with the safety engaged. Been using M1911s with that same drill safety for 50+ years. Not a problem or a disadvantage for me. No safety? Be real thoughtful when selecting a holster.

 

[1blindref]

I bought my first P320 (a full sized 9mm) about 10 years ago. I bought it to use in Action Pistol and IDPA matches, and primarily to audition the P320 platform as a CCW. It performed very well for me and I was impressed with the trigger and ergonomics. The trigger was light enough, but also heavy enough for what I wanted in a defensive handgun. Once I had about 2K rounds through the full sized P320, I decided to make the change to that platform to use as a CCW. I bought two P320 Compact 9mm versions. One for to use as a CCW, the other one for practice and to have a spare (one is none, two is one, etc).

All three had the original style fat, pre upgrade (not recalled) trigger. I added a full size P320 in .45acp as my daily work gun at a gun shop and range, also with the original fat trigger.
When the voluntary upgrade was announced, I had the opportunity to try and to shoot some of my customers guns that were upgraded. I didn't care for the feel of the upgraded trigger, so I decided not to send any of my P320's in for it.

I've been carrying and shooting Sig P320's for about ten years now. I'd venture to guess that I have well over a combined 20,000 to 25,000 rounds maybe more, through those four P320's without any issues. That said, I also haven't dropped any of those guns either. I carry my P320C 9mm in a leather holster (R.Grizzle Leather), and the full sized P320 .45acp in a Serpa (I know, you'll shoot yourself ) without any of them "going off".

I've purchsed two other variants with the new upgraded thin trigger since those original three, and can report no issues with those either.

Of course, other's may have had other results.

 

[Doug M.]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVV03hNhsaw&t=314s[/ame]. Washington's certified academy has banned them.

The problems with unintended discharges have been well documented since the introduction of the platform. I saw reports of it from people I trust on a hard user forum populated with mostly cops and military. What seems worst to me, other than Sig's complacency about the issue, is the inability to predict or determine what is causing the problem. It is NOT the same as crummy gun handling resulting in "Glock leg".

I have advised the command staff of my client agency to prohibit them too.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Haven't the majority of the ND's been from LEO reports? I would wonder how much gun handling experience played a hand in those ND's?

I own & carry several different Sig models. All are top quality, both in parts & build. So, I'm not certain what to believe on these reports.

I would tend to think the 320 model's sales have dropped greatly though.

My .o2

When I was a cop all Negligent Discharges were reported and in my day that was a two day Suspension without pay.

Most people will never report a ND because they do not want to be considered incompetent. If you had a ND with your 320 holstered do you think anyone will believe you?

SIG was awesome when they started making the P220 in 1975. It was a line of better firearms but when they started doing the Glock Clones it turned me off.

P-320, came under fire for unintentional discharge of the firearm. The semi-automatic pistol is used internationally, and the 80+ cases were limited to North America. But in other countries the chamber is left empty.

 

[A10]

My only plastic Sig was a P250. The chamber was bored so roughly that it would FTF every third or fourth round. It ran OK after I had it honed, but I never really trusted it. I've had lots of other Sigs, and still have my M11-a1 which I trust as an EDC and nightstand gun. My P239 is also very trustworthy and much more accurate than I am.

As far as polymer guns go, the S&W M&P and the Glock are the two I would carry.

 

[Heinz]

Mainsail, nice test, nice data report. I would suggest the next thing you need to look at is the effect of temperature change. If the problem is related to tolerance stacking, taking the pistol from 100 F to 0 F might inform your opinion of the reliability.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I have seen at least two reports, from actual media releases, not gun rag blogs, of P320 firing while in the holster. Here are two links:

MFPD recalls sidearms after accidental gun discharge at school - DailyTrib.com

Seven more gun owners allege Sig Sauer’s P320 fired without trigger pull | New Hampshire Public Radio

If the trigger isn’t pulled (manipulated) the P320 does not fire. Use a holster designed for the model P320 you have. Weapon lights on the pistol and associated holsters seem to be problematic.

 

[VictorLouis]

Perhaps THEE Best darn video I've seen on this issue, so far. However, it is rather long. Pour your beverage, and pop your corn.........

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzPvJiuCL8&t=2756s[/ame]

 

[HardToHandle]

There are numerous videos of holstered law enforcement P320s, of various vintages, discharging with no hands anywhere near them. Those videos are in the common circulation. The Washington Post had a major story detailing a dozen or so uncommanded firing cases - with the video evidence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/11/victims-say-sig-sauer-p320-fires-on-own/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SigSauer/comments/12imeos/good_ol_p320_made_into_the_washington_post_today/


The U.S. Army-led DoD issue of the M17/18 is also seeing numerous uncommanded discharges where chambered rounds are authorized. The totals are not fully known in public data, but 10+, in different types of holsters and different use cases. Deployed SOCOM reportedly is not using P320s, as they have options (mostly the Glock 19).

Sig appears to have settled 100+ different lawsuits to date. Not defended, just settled.

A paint shaker, while a creditable try, doesn’t seem likely to fit with the 100+ uncommanded discharges. The paint shaker is a manner to recreate the failure model found in the U.S. Army trials, where a moderate acceleration to the rear of the slide would overcome inertial firing pin safety. That was what the SIG Voluntary Upgrade Program was intended to address.

The Pistol Forum was 200 pages of informed discussion on P320 failures. That would be a good use of time to inform oneself. Especially before trying to get as an EDC or duty weapon.

 

[chief38]

Back about 15-20 years ago the NYPD had a bunch of ND's from their Glock 17's. Originally the pistols were delivered with 5.5 lb. triggers just like all the rest of the Glocks are. I do not recall hearing about any civilian ND's occurring so why has the NYPD had so many?? IMHO, poor and inadequate training and less qualified new hires are the real reasons - not the triggers. Instead of the NYPD retraining their officers they chose to have Glock retrofit all the pistols with 12-13 pound triggers. Instead of fixing the real issue, they put a bandaid on it which truly hurt accurate shooting. No wonder they shoot so poorly!

I have shot a few of those pistols when I lived in NY and they were ridiculously heavy! Instead of retraining, they chose to have a trigger that would fit the lowest common denominator of Officer - bad idea! The NYPD is just not getting the same caliber recruits as they used to - can't blame young people who don't want to work in a cesspool run by people wanting to defund their department.

I actually just heard that there were so many complaints about the NYPD triggers they are thinking of going back to the standard Glock trigger. We'll see if they come up with better training to prevent ND's.

As far as the Sig 320 is concerned, while I do not own one, I know many that do. I am not aware of any issues or ND's occurring with one. Never say never, but sometimes you just have to wonder.

 

[K Frame Keith]

First, I’ve never owned or shot an Sig P320 type firearm. However I am intrigued and would like to try a M18. I’m a fan of thumb safety’s even on striker fired handguns.
My last issued firearm was the HK USP Compact .40 with the thumb safety. My preferred EDC are 1911/BHP platforms.
I was also a Glock factory trained armorer and I am familiar with standard and NYPD trigger modules. IMHO the NYPD heavy trigger was unmanageably heavy. Probably intended to help poorly trained officers from accidentally firing their weapons.
Based on current information, I believe that most negligent discharges on striker fired handguns result from operator error rather than engineering faults.
Having said that, I believe the mindset developed when training with a handgun with a thumb safety helps prevent negligent discharges.