Thanks and Ammo questions

[ed9010]

I recently started a thread to ask questions about plans to purchase two S&W J frame revolvers, questions included if the internal lock was a problem. I got a lot of answers and advice and also read a lot of other forums that were very helpful. Thanks to all. I (we) ended up getting two revolvers, a 642 and a 442, had trouble selecting between them so we got one of each and in a few years we might know which we like best. They are both without the internal locks, they are both machined for moon clips (might never use them) and both are performance center Pro Series models, the S&W part numbers are 178041 and 178042. The Pro Series name on them was really very reasonable (approx 30.) and some indicated the result was better trigger action, who knows, but I thought the cost was OK and if nothing else it might provide better resale value (if they ever get sold). Other than finish, I think the only difference is the 642 has a stainless cylinder and the 442 has a carbon steel cylinder, probably not an issue the way I take care of my guns.

Both guns are on order and should arrive soon. The question remaining is what kind of ammo (38) for practice and for defense use? I want to minimize the kick while my wife gets used to shooting a handgun so I assume a lighter load would be best for practice. The current cost of these rounds will make practice a little pricey also. So, thanks again to everyone that assisted us and look forward to your ammo comments.

 

[ed9010]

Ammo Questions

I started this thread and it was intended for another forum so it is somewhat confusing for the ammo forum.

My questions are what ammo to use in two S&W J frame revolvers we just ordered, one is a 442 and one a 642. I am looking for ammo for practice that has minimal kick back as my wife has never fired a handgun before. And advice on what ammo we should use for defense when we carry these revolvers. Thanks in advance for the advice,

 

[BabaBlueJay]

The reality is most ammo will do just fine. Most will recommend some form of hollow point, most likely gold dot by speer (good luck finding any), Federal Hydra Shok, Hornady Critical Defense/Duty/American Gunner with FTX red tip, Remington green & white box, etc... All work fine.

I personally don't use hollow points, I use S&B FMJ 158 grain 357 magnum. People say it's blasphemy to carry FMJ but I don't care because I can hit an antenna off an ant with it, and at the end of the day you have to use what works for YOU, not us. Just be aware of the pros and cons of what you carry, for instance I have to live with the fact that my FMJ WILL over penetrate, and make less of a wound. So for me shot placement and knowing what is beyond my target is critical.

 

[Bald1]

I would suggest looking for any of the 100gr Frangible .38 range loads. VERY low recoil for your wife. A use a brand called International. I buy them whenever I’m in Florida. Congrats on 2 great purchases.

 

[Nevada Ed]

For Target work: Lowest cost round that will go "Bang" or the lightest
recoil ammo, do to the amount of rounds sent down range.

The standard target load is the 148 lead bullet but a standard 110 JHP ,
also is light in the recoil department, if reasonable in price.

Ammo for your guns is another large can of worms that has been talked to death, here.
Do some searches to see what people think is the best load.

 

[505Gibbs]

Any ammo loaded to SAMMI standards will be just fine! Even +P in moderate usage will do no harm.

 

[WR Moore]

Not being sure of your experience with handguns, one minor point: the standard .38 bullets for decades were 148 gr wadcutter for target (some like it for self defense) and 158 gr of various shapes. The majority of fixed sight revolvers are regulated for the 158 gr load. The target load should be in the ball park, it's less weight and slower than the standard load.

One oddity about handguns is that lighter, faster bullets impact lower on the target than heavier, slower bullets. I've never shot 110 gr bullets, but I've noticed that 125 gr +P hits about 3 inches lower than standard velocity 158 gr bullets at 25 yards, but that's out of a 4 inch barrel. Your results might be different.

FWIW, the average private citizen self defense shooting is at 5 yards. The extremes are 2 and 27 yards. Average round count is 3 rounds per bad person.

 

[ed9010]

Newbie Question

Sorry but I have to add to my question. When I go searching around for ammo I find 38 special, 380, 38 special+P, etc. etc., the S&W specs for my guns state the caliber is .38 S&W special+P. I have found via searches on the internet info that states .38 special and .38 S&W are not the same and not interchangeable. Exactly what caliber rounds can I use, or should I use, in my S&W 442 and 642 revolvers. And as you probably realize there seems to be a shortage of ammo in most places so I probably should start buying even before the guns arrive. (I live in California which is likely worse than non-communist states.)

 

[Dave Lively]

Look for 38 Special or 38 Special +P. About the only place you will see it called "38 S&W Special" is on the S&W website.

For target practice the lightest recoiling type of ammo is usually a 148 grain wadcutter. This ammo is made primarily for target practice. It is lightly loaded and features a cylindrical bullet that cuts a nice clean hole in paper targets. The downside is that can be hard to find and more expensive than other types of practice ammo. If you don't plan to shoot a lot and reducing recoil is your highest priority it is worth looking for. One place that has it in stock is Georgia Arms .38 Special 148gr Lead Wadcutter "NEW" - Georgia Arms . I have had good results with their ammo in the past but never tried this specific load. Other brands will work too, this is just one possible source.

A cheaper option for practice ammo is FMJ 38 Special ammo from various makers. I bought some 158 grain FMJ directly from Norma a few weeks ago for $22/box of 50. It has more recoil than the wadcutters but still has noticeably less than +P ammo. A bullet weight of 130 is more common than 158 and will work just as well. If the price of wadcutters is a bit much this is your best bet but watch for sales to get the best price.

ETA:
"38 S&W Special" is another name for "38 Special"
"38 S&W" is NOT the same as "38 Special"
".380" is NOT the same as "38 Special"

Confusing but rarely an issue. 38 S&W is a rarely encountered obsolete cartridge. If you do somehow happen on some for sale it usually has a warning about it not being compatible with 38 Special. The .380 is designed for small semiauto pistols and will not work in your gun.

Also just noticed you are in California and cannot buy online. If you do not want to have a dealer order some ammo for you just buy whatever type of 38 Special ammo you can find for practice.

38 Special +P is exactly the same size as regular 38 Special but has both more power and more recoil since it is loaded to higher pressure levels.

 

[murphydog]

A good and widely available .38 Special practice load is 130 gr full metal jacket or FMJ. Remington, Winchester and a bunch of other companies make it and it is lightly loaded, on par with 148 gr wadcutters which are difficult to find.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ed9010,
You seem to be very new to guns. IMO a light J frame is not a gun to start with because the light gun will increase the felt recoil. Your wife will not enjoy shooting any ammo in a 14oz J frame.

The 38 S&W and 38 Special are not the same but the 38 Special and the 38 S&W Special are the same. The +P is additional pressure usually resulting in additional bullet velocity and in turn, more felt recoil.

Please do this, enroll you and your wife is a basic handgun class locally so you can learn correctly and avoid mistakes. I have a feeling your wife did not shoot that Airweight J frame before you bought it. Please take a class or two.

Good luck and be safe.

 

[uncleted327]

Whatever you find for carry make sure it's not a FMJ. No matter how accurate you may be with it, the numerous reasons for not carrying it for defense are obvious to anyone with even a Crum of knowledge...

 

[pasound]

Georgia Arms has good ammo. The 148gr wadcutters are great for practice, and the 158gr semi-wadcutters are good for SD, if needed...

 

[DWalt]

For your specific situation I strongly suggest using the .38 Special 148 grain wadcutter target loads for both practice and defense. If you can find any. My reasoning is that being able to place your shots accurately and consistently is vastly more important to your continued well-being than what type of bullet is used. And wadcutters are very capable defense rounds and have minimal recoil from a lightweight revolver. In most defensive situations, ranges are short and you will be shooting instinctively, and not with sights, You may not even be able to see sights under low light and nighttime conditions. So the best self-defense practice is at close range, say 5 to 7 yards, emphasizing instinctive shooting rather than depending on sights.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ed9010,
The J frame is a difficult revolver to shoot well, especially light J frames. I highly suggest before you shoot live ammo you should dry fire the revolvers using snap caps. You will quickly identify and flaws in your technique because there is no recoil to hide it.

Don't jerk on the trigger, just squeeze it. If you jerk the trigger the revolver will pull to the lower left of your target. (if you are right handed) Practice not moving the gun at all when you pull the trigger. Additionally, you will smooth out the trigger while dry firing. Then go to the range for live fire. Never ever have any live ammo in the same room when you are dry firing for safety. Accidents can and will happen.


I wish you would have tried the Airweight J frame before you bought them.

Congratulations on your purchase, I have had both revolvers and still carry the M442 daily.

 

[WR Moore]

BTW, nradotorg will allow you to find certified instructors in your area that can help get you safely started one your journey as a firearms owner.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Sorry but I have to echo what some of the other posters have said. Small and light compact guns may be great for carrying but the very features that make them great carry guns make them very difficult for new shooters.

Your best bet would be to buy a medium size 38 Special revolver, say a used police Model 15, which would function exactly like your compacts. Learn to shoot and master the fundamentals with the larger gun then transition to the smaller carry guns.

If your dead set on sticking with the compacts then lower level 148 grain wadcutters would be the lowest recoil load available.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

ArchAngel and mscampbell make great points about J-Frames being a challenge to learn on. If there is room in the budget, consider picking up a 6" K, L, N frame or something like a GP-100. The bigger revolver is very mild with 38 special loads and a great way to work on fundamentals. I taught my wife to shoot on a 6" GP-100. She shoots it very well. She is indifferent to full sized autos and hates compact ones, but she has no fear of snubnose revolvers.

 

[John Patrick]

Light weight J frames are not fun to shoot even with “standard” practice ammo.

But light bullet, low velocity, very low recoil cowboy action shooting ammo is available. My wife, not much into guns, likes shooting them. For example: .38 Special 105 Grain TCFP BLACK Hi-Tek Coated Lead "Cowboy Choice" w/CCI PRIMERS~100% HAND LOADED!! - Choice Ammunition

Next up in recoil are standard factory target wadcutters. And these make decent self defense rounds, especially for your wife, since recoil is manageable even from an AirLight J frame.

There are 38 Special +P self defense rounds which work better, including Speer 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel.

MAKE SURE YOU BUY 38 SPECIAL AMMO, and NOT 38 S&W, which is a different cartridge.

 

[ed9010]

I have been away from computer access for a short time but wanted to respond to all of you for the excellent advice and information. THANK YOU it is much appreciated. In response to some of the comments:
While my gun knowledge is limited, I have some experience, I held a CCW for four years in a California rural county. I used a Ruger LCR9 semi automatic, great gun and never jammed on me, however I was not getting enough practice and the gun was complex compared to a simple revolver. It was almost like if I needed to use it I also needed to reread the manual (please do not bother to tell me you have to practice on a regular basis, I know that).

Now we are living in another California county that supports CCW and I want to renew my training and certification. My wife has decided to do the same. She has only shot shotguns. I have two very gun knowledgeable friends (one a gunsmith and the other a retired cop/PI) and they suggested the J-frames. Due mainly to simplicity and also size. I have owned a Ruger single action six 22 cal since 1965 (now a collectors item I think). Using it is simple, very intuitive compared to the semi-automatics. So we decided to deal with the kick of the light J-frames and try these revolvers.

I also read how you suggested my wife using a larger revolver to get used to shooting a pistol. That probably is a good suggestion. I plan (after a basic class) to have her get some range time with my Ruger Single six. She will like it, no kick, and provide confidence for her prior to the shooting the J frame with wadcutters. If needed we will consider a larger S&W also that uses 38 special ammo.

I read all the ammo suggestions, thanks for that also. As suggested I bought some Winchester 38 Special 130 grain FMJ for practice use. My gunsmith friend is also loading some low speed wadcutter rounds for my wife to use. I realize the kick needs to be managed and handled properly, and we changed to some different Hogue grips to make it easier. If the kick can't be handled properly at the range (with practice and defense rounds) we of course will not attempt to carry the J-Frames.

thanks again, Ed