That's it! Not carrying until trial's over

[mrerick]

I tell my CCW students that after an incident, you'll probably lose friends; acquaintances will be scared of you and you will likely be pulled through the mud in the press. Anyone (even the not guilty) are at a great deal of risk when they enter the legal system as a defendant because their fate rests in the judgement of others.

None of the facts in the Zimmerman case have been made public. The trial (if it proceeds) will bring those to the surface if the forensic team investigating the incident did their job properly. That, of course, may or may not be the case. That is another risk that is out of your control.

Zimmerman is in a very costly position. He's been taken advantage of by a publicity seeking legal team that looks like it may have been more publicity seeking than competent. He's said to be dealing with post traumatic stress syndrome, which wouldn't surprise me.

As the facts come out, I hope that he acted within the law, and that his actions were justified. He already has to deal with the issues surrounding taking another person's life. If he's convicted of a crime, he'll have to deal with those penalties, and we'll all have to deal with the publicity surrounding his case.

If you own a gun, and haven't thought through the consequences of using it, I urge you to take competent tactical training. I am a graduate of Massad Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute, and it really opened my eyes when I throught about these issues.

Marc

 

[RobertJ.]

Let's see now if I get this straight. Because ONE CCW holder possibly made a misstep (or an error in judgment), the OP is reluctant to carry anything lethal for fear that if he carries and potentially acts in a perfectly legal and justified manner using lethal force, he will be criticized or attacked in the press, by various biased groups or politicians, and possibly charged with a crime.

In my book, that meets the definition of a phobia - an unreasoning fear of an object, situation or something possibly happening.

To have one's own legal actions and rights influenced by events, groups, politicians or the lamestream media is in my opinion very ill-advised. Giving up one's best means of personal security for such things only reflects muddled reasoning. Threats on the street are real, and no one should be looking for trouble, and in fact should avoid situations where it may occur. But if defending oneself against potentially lethal danger is legal, then by all means, have the best means possible to do it. There are too many instances of motivated criminals tossing off pepper spray and stun guns and doing injury to others. In most cases the mere display of a gun will stop them in their tracks, and if that doesn't do it, pulling the trigger will be not only legal but justifiable.

If the OP does not wish to carry a firearm, I stand up for his right to make that choice. If he does not wish have a means of lethal force to protect himself, I would be last to urge him to do so. It IS a free country, or mostly so - the last time I checked.

I just don't think what happened is reasonable justification for that action, and it's not a course I would personally take.

My two cents worth.

John

So far the best post on the subject.

 

[venomballistics]

Someone asked me what I hoped would happen in this case. My answer is very simple, I hope the honest truth comes out. Not spin and lies, the real honest to god truth. Then let the chips lay where they fall.


I am afraid that we will never know.

Based on the story we were to till this point (dont know if it true or not) It seems Zimmerman started a chain of events.

A policeman friend told me many years ago. Never get out of your car. If you have a situation, yelling verbal threats of violence. Dont get out of the car, drive away if need be.

exactly .. besides, just how much observation can one apply to a subject while supposedly driving by and expect to have an accurate context. If it looks weird .. keep on truckin and consult with Jack Daniels for a memory wipe if it bothers you

 

[venomballistics]

So far the best post on the subject.

yup .. he's always good for well thought response

 

[kraigwy]

I carry per the LEOSA. Since I'm retired, I carry to protect my self and family, not to hunt down bandits.

So I really don't see how the Zimmerman case affects me or my carrying.

 

[truetopath]

I think CCW'ing now is more important than ever, especially since the current administration is allowing the lynch mob mentality to continue. The only thing that will stop me from carrying is death, until then my gun stays on my hip.

 

[Chuck1217]

Just a quick amen to sipowizc- afraid he's right, 'not guilty' are two words that will start a really bad day in FL...and no telling how many days it'll last. Remember Rodney in Calif.?

 

[MaximumLawman]

I once posted that you can just shoot someone for punching you in the nose. I was soundly chastised as not knowing what I was talking about when I said that in the academy they told us: "Sometimes you just gotta take an ***-kicking." Zimmerman may very well be found not guilty of 2nd Degree Murder and it may work in his favor that he was charged with this instead of Manslaughter. But the fact remains.....You can't just shoot someone for punching you in the nose...unless you want to end up like this schmuck.

...cities will go dark, windows will be smashed, and irate people looking for justice will settle for free big screen TVs sans the warranty....that you can take to the bank.

A pun considering all of the police overtime that a riot(s) would entail?

 

[jtpur]

Someone asked me what I hoped would happen in this case. My answer is very simple, I hope the honest truth comes out. Not spin and lies, the real honest to god truth. Then let the chips lay where they fall.


I am afraid that we will never know.

Based on the story we were to till this point (dont know if it true or not) It seems Zimmerman started a chain of events.

A policeman friend told me many years ago. Never get out of your car. If you have a situation, yelling verbal threats of violence. Dont get out of the car, drive away if need be.

Would be wonderful if the truth comes out. The truth in these cases is always the first casuality of public hysteria and media overcoverage....Truth......to paraphrase a line from a movie. "They cant handle the truth"

 

[rrick]

CCW Hoodie

Does this mean you`re not going to wear your Concealed Carry Sash anymore??. Always Carry,Never Tell.

http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=11&p=CO+635&ct=e This?

 

[cmort666]

Target me? Well, my 50,000 V tethered twins are ready to take 30 seconds off your existence (fire, drop and run C2 Taser). Since my original, .22 short, defense idea was explained to be lethal force, the electric tranquilizer darts and keychain mace will keep me safe, from criminals, and from America, the fine country I never want to experience banishment from.

The above is what I think Robin Williams once described as a "massive vowel movement".

That aside, if Tasers or mace were a good sole line of defense, cops wouldn't carry firearms.

I work very hard to avoid interactions of any kind with police or the criminal justice system.

I try even harder to avoid interactions with embalmers.

That's why I carry a firearm.

 

[cmort666]

Sorry I didn't come right out and say it. My post is regarding Zimmerman's criminal charge Murder II. So, until I gain a little more knowledge about how The United States is operating, and facts of the case, I'm going to hold off public carry of lethal force. Taser, ha ha I shouldn't have brought that up in a S&W form.

Barring a "Fringe"-like blurring of parallel universes, you're very unlikely to encounter Trayvon Martin. Nor are you likely to (unless you intentionally do so) have an encounter similar to that between Zimmerman and Martin.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, what transpired between Martin and Zimmerman is of the UTMOST irrelevance to my right and need to defend myself.

As I noted above, I do my very best to avoid police and the courts. I am however absolutely unwilling to ALLOW myself to be maimed or murdered to that end.

A good lawyer can talk you out of most any legal scrape. NOBODY can talk you out of your grave.

 

[cmort666]

I have no idea what really happened...but I do know that if he is found not guilty, it will not be enough for the Sharptons of the world who claim all they want is a fair trial (fair meaning guilty)...cities will go dark, windows will be smashed, and irate people looking for justice will settle for free big screen TVs sans the warranty....that you can take to the bank.

...and if this does happen, it will happen overwhelmingly where mere citizens have little or no right to defend themselves.

 

[venomballistics]

The above is what I think Robin Williams once described as a "massive vowel movement".

That aside, if Tasers or mace were a good sole line of defense, cops wouldn't carry firearms.

I work very hard to avoid interactions of any kind with police or the criminal justice system.

I try even harder to avoid interactions with embalmers.

That's why I carry a firearm.

Ever watch some of those "caught on tape" shows?
the tazer isnt a bad piece of hardware .. when you can use it but the pepper spray ... when you have one that really needs it, it dont seem to work.

 

[cmort666]

Ever watch some of those "caught on tape" shows?
the tazer isnt a bad piece of hardware .. when you can use it but the pepper spray ... when you have one that really needs it, it dont seem to work.

I view Tazers and chemical sprays as less lethal ways to APPREHEND someone.

I'm not a cop; I don't want to be a cop; I don't want to do what cops have in their job descriptions. I don't want to apprehend ANYBODY.

I strenuously avoid people and situations which commonly attract physical violence. I stay away from places where people get drunk or high. I especially stay away from places where people do that and physically assault each other.

If I can, I'll WALK away from a threat. If I can't, my attempt has satisfied the law and any personal preferences. After that, my assailant has voluntarily assumed any risk for harm that comes to him.

I absolutely refuse to incur one iota of risk to protect somebody else from his own freely made bad choices. Fortunately, Ohio doesn't try to make me do so.

 

[crofoot629]

A good choice for you.

Emory

 

[TexasArmed]

...and if this does happen, it will happen overwhelmingly where mere citizens have little or no right to defend themselves.

Don't know about Miami and Florida, but it won't happen in Texas. Texans do have the right to defend themselves and defend their property, especially at night. Even collection agents had a petition out to change Texas laws because repo guys were being shot. And even now we have people coming down to Texas wanting to change our laws to something like they have in Chicago Utoipia. I only own handguns myself,
but if I really thougth trouble was coming I might buy a few longuns, and/or shotguns. It does anger me greatly to see
some on the news media, wanting to strip away our SYG laws.

I don't think I would normally follow a felon, but the other day
someone sideswiped my vehicle but kept going accelerating away. I did follow them, and it was at night. I only wanted to
get their tag number but they stopped and got out. Fortunately they just brought their insurance papers. Had I not followed I think they would have just kept going. No pencil, no paper inside my car.

One thing I have learned from all this recent attention, is I now have the name, and phone number of a criminal defense attorney with a good reputation where I live. I plan to see what
kind of retainer fee he has to keep him on retainer.

 

[GeorgeP]

I think when the trial gets underway we'll learn more evidence...in both directions.

With that said, I'm a Florida resident and glad to have "stand your ground" on the books but I still have to remember that all prosecuting attorneys have the right to question and can prosecute for "intent"... intent meaning intent to kill not just defend yourself. Really fine line. This is sort of lame but my CCW course had a former prosecuting attorney present the "legal" side of CCW responsibility. Here's his put... shoot someone with a 22, 32, 380 and the "intent" scale is tipped more toward self defense. Shoot someone with a 9mm or larger and the scale may tip more toward intent to kill. I said it was lame but true. Another put from him was, never pursue or chase. You can "stand your ground" but you can't advance your ground. Again, a fine line. One last point, the two in the chest, one in the head technique will raise questions. Also, any modification of a firearm that may limit or remove factory safety will tips the intent scale toward intent to kill and will result in close attention from the prosecutor.

I questioned the "two in the chest, one in the head" issue and his answer was, don't make it look planned, put them all in the body or all in the head area. Never in the back of either.

George

I may leave mine at home and in the car for awhile also.

 

[cmort666]

Here's his put... shoot someone with a 22, 32, 380 and the "intent" scale is tipped more toward self defense. Shoot someone with a 9mm or larger and the scale may tip more toward intent to kill.

Fortunately, such "thinking" would be considered weird and aberrant here, even by most laymen.

In a recent and widely discussed shooting in a Dayton area gas station, two drug addled morons jumped a guy pumping gas. Neither was armed. They hit him from front and rear. The victim managed to break free and put two rounds of .45acp, one each of "Pow-R-Ball" and 230gr. FMJ into one of his assailants, who folded like a paper towel.

The victim was not charged with ANYTHING, and under the circumstances, probably wouldn't be ANYWHERE in Ohio, including Cleveland.

In Cleveland, another little moron tried to rob a guy on his own front lawn a few years ago. He ate some .40 S&W and is now taking an extended dirt nap. Apart from his mutant family and degenerate "posse", very few people have expressed any sympathy for the deceased. Caliber was never an issue AT ALL.

I've never been to Florida. I can say that in Ohio, nobody much cares WHAT you shoot somebody with if you have a reasonable and immediate fear of life and limb. Around here, the theory is that if you don't make people think you NEED to get shot, you won't get shot with ANYTHING, be it a 2.75mm Kolibri or a .500 Linebaugh.

 

[keith44spl]

(former prosecuting attorney) Here's his put... "shoot someone with a 22, 32, 380 and the "intent" scale is tipped more toward self defense. Shoot someone with a 9mm or larger and the scale may tip more toward intent to kill. "




This thread started off kinda lame...Nows it gone off the chart. Gees....

Some will prepare to defend themselves and others won't.

The Darwin Awards will do the cullin.

Su Amigo,
Dave