The 1894 Winchester and a mild load of Unique

[David LaPell]

I finally got around to handloading for my 1894 Winchester .38-55, using 9 grains of Unique. The gun, made in 1895, is well worn so I didn't want to push it too much. I am using some Lyman 375449 gas check bullets I got from Montana Bullet, I weighed them out they're a bit heavy, 280 grains. After getting it sighted it in, I was able to get a 3 shot group at 25 yards about the size of a quarter. Since all the hunting up here is about 100 yards or under, I probably will use this as a deer load for this fall.

 

[muddocktor]

Nice looking old timer you got there man!

BTW, why use such a fast powder in an old cartridge and gun? I did a little looking and the only online source for loads for .38-55 were at Hodgdon and the powders they used were H322 and H4198, which are slower rifle powders. I would think a slower rifle powder would be better to use because of better case fill and not quite as sharp a pressure ramp when igniting.

 

[BB57]

I use the same 9 gr load in my .38-55s (and in my .375 Win) using what I suspect are the same 280 gr GC cast bullets. I also load up 249 gr bullets using 9.6 grains of Unique.

I use 14 grains in my .45-70s with 405 gr cast bullets. However in that larger case I also use a 1" square polyester wad (cut from 1/4" quilt batting) to take up the excess space.

It's accurate, clean burning and produces traditional black powder era velocities without the mess.

Straight wall cases do not seal very effectively initially with slow burning powders and you get significant gas in the action. The faster build up of pressure of Unique in the .38-55 and .45-70 case seals the case wall to the chamber sooner and the end result is a lot less gas and crud coming back into the action.

It works, it's a published load (Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook), it's accurate, the recoil is mild, and the small charges and cast bullets make for a very inexpensive load that replicates the old BP numbers.

I've seen charges up to 10 grains with 280 gr bullets, but I find 9.0 grains works just fine in the .38-55.

 

[The Norseman]

Unique what Groups are made of

Thank you both for sharing Range/Reloading
insights. I have more understanding of fast
powders.

Also thank you for the Pictures.

Cool Rifles and Cartridges!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I had a friend that his Win 94 used lead bullets of .384 diameter. His ammo won't chamber in my High Wall! But he got very good 50 yard groups (His eyes didn't allow further shooting for accuracy.) He used Accurate 5744 but I can't find how much, and he has passed away, so he won't be telling me!

My High Wall uses .377 bullets and will do nickel sized groups at 100 yards with a globe front and tang sight. I loaded Trail Boss with a 1/16" gap below the bullet base. I used modern length brass. You gun may prefer the old longer (1/8") brass, Starline makes both lengths. That 1/16" gap has proved to be the most accurate why to come up with a Trail Boss load, instead of just a specific weight of powder for all bullets of a given weight.

Ivan

 

[cowboy4evr]

I have an 1894 Winchester in 38-55 . Mine was made in 1897 . I use the LEE 255 gr cast bullet sized .379 sitting on top of a charge of Accurate 5744. I contacted Accurate powder company for the load data . I'm happy with my load . Regards, Paul

 

[muddocktor]

Thank you for the explanation, BB57. I learned something new out of that.

 

[DWalt]

Lead bullet loads work very well in about any caliber with any bullet weight using about any of the faster burning shotgun or handgun propellants, generally about 13 grains being recommended. I used to make very good .45-70 loads with 400 grain lead bullets and 13 grains of Red Dot. No wadding is necessary. Just don't expect high MVs, as they will typically be in the 1200-1500 ft/sec range, basically black powder ballistics. At one time early in the 20th Century, such light loads were commercially loaded in common hunting calibers such as the .30-30, .303 Savage, etc. for use on small game or for finishing off wounded larger game.

 

[Art Doc]

So I guess nobody worries about the old stories of small charges of fast powder in large cases causing detonations?

I would not use Unique in a full size rifle case.

 

[Peak53]

Seems like internet lore, at least in the case of of .30 caliber and up rifles. Now, would I try the same in Bullseye? Not on my life. I've had great success at 9-12 grains of Unique. Accurate at moderate ranges and negligible recoil. I think I could take a squirrel at 50 yards with my 30.30 except I can't see that far

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Detonation of light charges of quick burning powders in large cases(or even small ones aka 2.7 Bullseye in .38spl)has been reported many times but have never been scientifically duplicated even after numerous tries.
I've used them thousands of times and tests have shown that there isn't enough energy in a small amount of powder to cause a perfectly good firearm to explode.On the other hand,numerous such cases have been found to be double or even triple charge or barrel obstruction.
I keep using them and don't have a secound thought about it.

 

[DWalt]

The Lyman cast bullet handbook contains a great many light rifle loads using fast pistol and shotgun powders. They wouldn't be there if they were unsafe.

 

[BB57]

So I guess nobody worries about the old stories of small charges of fast powder in large cases causing detonations?

I would not use Unique in a full size rifle case.

Yes, but Unique isn't all that fast a powder.

Unique is a double base powder like Red Dot and Bullseye, but the burn rate is medium by pistol powder standards. It is no where near as fast as Red Dot or Bullseye. It is in between HP-38/ Win 231 and Power Pistol and it works great in a wide range of handgun loads, as well as in light cast bullet rifle loads.

Unique is a popular cast bullet rifle powder as it does very well at low load densities. As noted above it is quite happy in the .38-55 case and a wad isn't needed until you're up in the .45-70 case capacity range.

No one if forcing you to use it in a full size rifle case of course, but there is a lot of published load data out there for light and medium power cast bullet loads.

------

I suspect that the reason why some folks think Unique is a "fast" powder is that it is a faster than the "slow" pistol powders that are more commonly used in cartridges like the .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum - Blue Dot, 2400, H110/Win 296, IMR 4227, etc.

Truth be told however, I prefer Unique in my short barrel .357 Revolvers. 9.0 grains of Unique under a 125 gr XTP will deliver 1300 fps in a 2 1/2" revolver, the same or at worst not significantly less than a full charge of Win 296 - with about 2/3rds the recoil impulse at the same bullet velocity. And 9 grains of a faster flake powder is much easier on the forcing cone than a 21 gr charger of a slow burning abrasive colloidal ball powder like Win 296.