The Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

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What could we possibly be missing?


Oy vey--facts, information; what need have we for them,
for we are certain in our convictions, and know how we
feel!

Keep in mind, attorneys are not under oath, in press
conferences...hence, the "chase" (by a parked truck :rolleyes:),
and the latest meme: that the deceased was planning a
career as an electrician, and that was why he stopped in
the unfinished dwelling--to inspect the exposed wiring.
 
Collects is correct! Lots of new things coming out about this "poor innocent young black man", just out for a jog!
Aubrey's innocence or guilt is not in question here. It doesn't matter what his past was. The only thing that matters is were the McMichaels justified in what they did. They weren't justified because they didn't know of and weren't witnesses to any crime committed by Aubrey.

If the crime Arbery is suspected of committing is a misdemeanor, and the citizen's arrest wasn't warranted, then convict them. I don't care. I don'r blindly defend anybody, regardless of their race, religion, or profession, as so many professional agitators and professional victims like to do.
I couldn't agree more.

The one thing I object to is the continued downplaying of Arbery.
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He's no Emmit Till.
I don't know who Emmit Till is/was, but I can only assume you mention him as someone who was truly innocent. I agree that Aubrey may not have been clean and maybe he was a horrible person. That's not in question here. The question is, did the McMichaels have some first hand knowledge of some felony committed by Aubrey. By their own testimony, they didn't. If they didn't, they were wrong in their actions.

Oy vey--facts, information; what need have we for them,
for we are certain in our convictions, and know how we
feel!

Keep in mind, attorneys are not under oath, in press
conferences...hence, the "chase" (by a parked truck :rolleyes:),
and the latest meme: that the deceased was planning a
career as an electrician, and that was why he stopped in
the unfinished dwelling--to inspect the exposed wiring.
Yes, facts is what any criminal investigation needs. My question still stands; what more evidence could there be to uncover? Let's look at what we know...
  • Aubrey had been through this neighborhood before, but had committed no crimes there.
  • The McMichaels had some knowledge of Aubrey, but had not personally witnessed any crimes by him.
  • The McMichaels stated that they thought he might be someone who committed a crime.
  • The McMichaels gave chase.
Yes, they gave chase. This is not in question. If the only "evidence" you're using to base your opinion is the short phone video, then you're not looking at everything that is available and you're the one who doesn't have the facts.

  • Mr. Bryan also gave chase in his own truck, which is how we got the video, and tried to block Aubrey from getting away.
  • The McMichaels eventually stopped their truck and got out to confront Aubrey, with guns drawn.
    Aubrey fought back when confronted by two men with guns.

The truck was only "parked" after they got out to grab Aubrey.

Look, Aubrey may indeed have been some bad dude. He may have a checkered past. He may have a rap sheet a mile long. None of that is relevant to the crime at hand. Based on Georgia law, as has been posted many times in this thread, the McMichaels didn't have the right to do what they did. They didn't have first hand knowledge of any crime committed by Aubrey. That alone is enough to prosecute them.




One more thing, I don't think charging Bryan with murder is right. Attempting to commit false imprisonment, yes, but murder, no.
 
Collects is correct! Lots of new things coming out about this "poor innocent young black man", just out for a jog! Yeah, right! It's turning out that he is not quite the person the main stream lying media says he is. This reminds me so much of the Trayvon Martin shooting, all the shots of the little innocent lad, blah, blah, etc. Until the REAL pictures started appearing of a young thug, which was what he was. I think that when the REAL facts come out, and they will, Mr. Arberry is not gonna be the innocent victim in this case. I could be wrong, but I don't think so

None of that has anything to do with two, maybe 3, white racist dudes chasing a guy because they think he did something. Then basically provoke a shooting. You guys have some serious issues with right & wrong & use of force.
No I dont think he was an innocent guy out for a jog, but he committed no crime worth being shot over. I would call what happened premeditated. Funny part, without the film, they might have gotten off like ole Zim.
 
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One more thing, I don't think charging Bryan with murder is right. Attempting to commit false imprisonment, yes, but murder, no.

If all your other presumptions were correct, then, yes--charging
Bryan with felony murder would be correct, and appropriate.
 
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The chase is supported by the lawyers statements.

Fixed it for ya. :D

What's the difference between "chasing" someone, and
"following and watching"?

Does "chasing" require some level of awareness, and
trepidation, in the mind of the 'chasee'?

How would that awareness show in the 'chasee's'
behavior, given his mobility would allow him to
traverse areas that the 'chasers' could not?
 
If somebody was chasing me in a place like that I would run up to a house and ask them to call the cops.
 
@Rastoff

Under the law, in most cases where someone is deemed an accomplice in a capital case, they are charged with murder regardless of who actually pulls the trigger.

They may, or may not be convicted of that charge, and may very well be convicted, (if found guilty or upon a plea), of a lesser charge.
 
If all your other presumptions were correct, then, yes--charging
Bryan with felony murder would be correct, and appropriate.
Yes, I can see that.
@Rastoff

Under the law, in most cases where someone is deemed an accomplice in a capital case, they are charged with murder regardless of who actually pulls the trigger.

They may, or may not be convicted of that charge, and may very well be convicted, (if found guilty or upon a plea), of a lesser charge.
I understand why this might happen. I just don't agree with it at this time.

According to what has been said so far, Bryan did engage in chasing and attempting to detain Arbery. Without his video we wouldn't be having this discussion. I guess the question is, did he collude with the McMichaels? Was Bryan a friend or confidant of the McMichaels? Had they discussed Arbery before? Is some prior knowledge why Bryan jumped in his truck and attempted to assist with the apprehension?

In the case of Bryan, I guess I'll have to hold my opinion on this for a later date. In his case I can see that there might be some more information that would change my opinion of his role in this crime.

Concerning the McMichaels, I have yet to see anything that changes my opinion of their role. Nor can I imagine any new evidence that would change my mind concerning them.
 
I don't think the full video of the pursuit has been released. The pursuit may well have been longer than the recording. It now seems that 3 men in 2 trucks, at least 2 of whom admit to being armed, pursued Arbery, tried to block him with their vehicles, for "four minutes"... before pulling ahead of him to again block him to confront Arbery gun in hand. The video is from the perspective of the second pursuing vehicle chasing Arbery to that confrontation.

Stepping back... this reminds me of a deer drive...

If we just add chase dogs to the mix... it would look like pursuing fugitive slaves from before the Civil War.
 
If thise of you that thnk this whole thing is a farse, flip it around. A white dude in a black neighborhood chased, confronted & shot by 2 black men. I am sure your viewpoint would be totally diff. I am sure the white, racist community would be calling for murder 1. Please, as a white guy, this is embarrassing.
 
None of that has anything to do with two, maybe 3, white racist dudes chasing a guy because they think he did something. Then basically provoke a shooting. You guys have some serious issues with right & wrong & use of force.
No I dont think he was an innocent guy out for a jog, but he committed no crime worth being shot over. I would call what happened premeditated. Funny part, without the film, they might have gotten off like ole Zim.

You have no information that proves any of the suspects were racist. That is your opinion. So other people were on video looking at the house. So was Arbery, or at the least another black guy who wasn't pursued that day.

You have no idea what information the Michaels had at the time they got into their truck.

You have no idea if the crime suspected was a misdemeanor. And I don't care what the DA states he WOULD charge, either. An arrest is made by the cop on the scene based on probable cause. A DA charges after an investigation is conducted and based upon what charges they can make stick. Truthfully, 98% of arrests never even make it to trial. A sweet plea bargain deal is offered, the suspect takes it, and the DA gets another conviction to brag about. Taking what the DA SAYS would be the crime AFTER the fact means nothing to me. The media has painted Arbery as an innocent lass out for his afternoon constitutional. They're not gonna state the crime suspected WAS a felony.

ALL that matters is what the Georgia penal law says. If a house under renovation is STILL CONSIDERED A RESIDENCE, then Arbery being in there IS a felony. It doesn't matter if nobody else had been arrested before that day. I can speed to work every day and not get pulled over. When I finally do, I can't go to court and say "but I have done that 100 times before and never been charged". Doesn't matter.

Here's the Georgia Penal Law definition of Burglary:

In Georgia, burglary is defined as the breaking and entering into any structure with the intent to commit a felony therein. You must intend to commit an underlying offense, which can be a crime against property, such as theft; or a crime against a person, such as assault. Like other Georgia criminal charges, burglary can be charged in different degrees according to the severity of the crime. O.C.G.A. §16-7-1.

You commit First Degree Burglary if you enter or remain within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant dwelling house of another or any building, railroad car, watercraft, aircraft, or other such structure for use as the dwelling of another without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein. O.C.G.A. §16-7-1. A person found guilty of burglary in the first degree will be convicted of a felony and will be punished by a prison sentence of one to twenty years. If you are convicted of burglary in the first-degree burglary a second time, you will be found guilty of a felony and will be punished by a prison sentence for two to twenty years. For a third or subsequent conviction of burglary, you will be guilty of a felony and will face a prison term for no less than five and no more than twenty-five years.

*******You commit Second Degree Burglary when you enter or remain in an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein. The punishment if found guilty of second-degree burglary is a prison sentence for a period from one to eight years.*******

Essentially the difference between First and Second Degree Burglary is whether or not the structure was intended to be a dwelling or not. If the structure is, in fact, a home, then you have committed first degree. If not a dwelling, then second degree.

******In Georgia, burglary in the second degree is a felony. The punishment for a first conviction of burglary in the second degree is one to five years in prison. Any subsequent convictions of burglary in the second degree come with the punishment of imprisonment for one to eight years.******


The video we have seen of Arbery in the house is 3 minutes long. We have seen seconds of it. The outside video shows him looking before running in, and then running away when he is confronted. So nobody has all the facts. Some people, like yourself, have made up their minds that the Michaels are racist and they had no prior knowledge of Arbery. We don't know any of that, yet.

What I do know is what the cop has probable cause to arrest for and what the DA eventually formally charges are two very different things, especially given the pressure the DA is going to be under to placate to the angry "No Justice, No Peace" crowds. Since the father is a former cop, I am sure he has arrested people and charged them with burglary, and then the DA reduced the charges.


Sorry, but this case is not as cut and dried as you believe. The REAL question is will they get a fair trial? I say no way in Hell. They're done, facts be damned.
 
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