The Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

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bulletslap said:
If you were an innocent afraid that someone was going to shoot you, would you run 60 feet toward the armed individual and try and take their weapon ? I don't think that makes any sense.

When then facts comes in and are confirmed this will be the 2020 election season's equivalent of Michael Brown the gentle Giant and St. Travon, I strongly suspect.
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Looks like it already has. The new video paints a whole different picture. Looking around before going in. Running up the driveway to go in. Three minutes inside when the media shows 7 seconds. Running away when neighbor yells at him. Running around truck before he changes direction and runs directly at the older guy. Grappling over the shotgun, where the old man would have surely lost possession with a much younger and stronger man.

Out jogging while gunned down for no reason? Nonsense! Recidivist criminal clearly up to no good. Well meaning but unwise father and son try to play Batman and lowlife attacks. If the guy in that video is right about Georgia law and this was a burglary, this WAS a felony. I know in NY, you don't have to actually commit a crime in addition to being in the place to make it a burglary. You just have to intend to. If carrying a loaded shotgun openly is not a crime, and making a citizens arrest is ok for a felony, then if I was on that jury I'd be voting to acquit. They might still have racist tendencies, but I don't care about that as long as no laws were violated. You grab a weapon that I am holding legally and I'd shoot you too.

But they're toast anyway. DA will sacrifice them to avoid looking bad and to avoid riots. Mother who paints her son as an angel out for a run 20 miles from his house will cash in on the lawsuit. Anybody who thinks the criminal justice system is about justice sorely mistaken.
 
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It would probably require a lot of fast talk to convince a jury that if you had the only gun, you shot someone to protect yourself.
Something we have learned through the history of events like this is that mostly we do not know what actually happened and that the jury will decide this , not the internet forums, and no matter what they decide, half the population will yell "foul play".
 
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The guy that owns the new construction house wasn't concerned, says he didn't report anything, doesn't know the McMichaels, and said reports of fishing equipment being stolen are greatly exaggerated. He knows of no burglaries in the area. He said some guns were stolen from a truck that was unlocked one time. (McMichaels truck) His fishing poles could have been stolen from his boat at his home or the construction site at an unknown date/time. He doesn't know where and didn't file a police report for that reason. It will be interesting what the investigation shows.
 
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LPD256 said:
The guy that owns the new construction house wasn't concerned, says he didn't report anything, doesn't know the McMichaels, and said reports of fishing equipment being stolen are greatly exaggerated. He knows of no burglaries in the area. He said some guns were stolen from a truck that was unlocked one time. (McMichaels truck) His fishing poles could have been stolen from his boat at his home or the construction site at an unknown date/time. He doesn't know where and didn't file a police report for that reason. It will be interesting what the investigation shows.
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So, the conclusion to be drawn is that there is something "fishy" about this whole event.
 
Ziggy2525 said:
The differences are huge. They weren't anything at all alike. If that's the kind propaganda your you're getting fed in California, it may be time for you to plan your escape now.

Best bet might be an overland escape over the wall into Arizona or Nevada. Desperation move would be a risky water exfil, but that could put you in Oregon and it may not be much better. :)
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Your opinion, I just dont see huge diff. If you do, i think you need to re evaluate why you ccw. Both cases were over zelous gun toters playing wannabe cop. Both took guns to a situation they didnt think they could handle without & for ed a shooting to protect the gin. Both had zero authority to pursue their victims. Not propaganda at all, I can research & make my own decisions & have. Dont be one of these morons, gives every non gun owner an impression we are all morons.
Btw, gets a bit old bashing kalif. I dont support much that goes on here but Florida, Texas, Co, all have places that support stupid policies with stupid people supportng them.
 
kbm6893 said:
Looks like it already has. The new video paints a whole different picture. Looking around before going in. Running up the driveway to go in. Three minutes inside when the media shows 7 seconds. Running away when neighbor yells at him. Running around truck before he changes direction and runs directly at the older guy. Grappling over the shotgun, where the old man would have surely lost possession with a much younger and stronger man.

Out jogging while gunned down for no reason? Nonsense! Recidivist criminal clearly up to no good. Well meaning but unwise father and son try to play Batman and lowlife attacks. If the guy in that video is right about Georgia law and this was a burglary, this WAS a felony. I know in NY, you don't have to actually commit a crime in addition to being in the place to make it a burglary. You just have to intend to. If carrying a loaded shotgun openly is not a crime, and making a citizens arrest is ok for a felony, then if I was on that jury I'd be voting to acquit. They might still have racist tendencies, but I don't care about that as long as no laws were violated. You grab a weapon that I am holding legally and I'd shoot you too.

But they're toast anyway. DA will sacrifice them to avoid looking bad and to avoid riots. Mother who paints her son as an angel out for a run 20 miles from his house will cash in on the lawsuit. Anybody who thinks the criminal justice system is about justice sorely mistaken.
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No sacrafce, those to idiots should go to jail. Zimmerman should have gone to jail. Forcng a shooting then justifying it as protectng the gun is criminal stupid. They put themselves their, they chose to played a stupid game & need to win a stupid prize.
They saw nothing but a man running thru a neighborhood. No felony, no way to prove that. They knew nothing of his past. At worst, tresspass & not even provable criminal tresspass. That does NOT require an armed response, ever. Tell me you would have thrown your hands up & surrendered to an armed idiot in a pickup?
Could he have had criminal intent, sure. Not provable even in tne video which dumb & dumber did not see. I see two racist vigilanties that screwed up & someone died for their stupidity. The fact one was retired leo makes it worse, but then your mindset seems the same so maybe it is something else driving the narrative.
 
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LPD256 said:
The guy that owns the new construction house wasn't concerned, says he didn't report anything, doesn't know the McMichaels, and said reports of fishing equipment being stolen are greatly exaggerated. He knows of no burglaries in the area. He said some guns were stolen from a truck that was unlocked one time. (McMichaels truck) His fishing poles could have been stolen from his boat at his home or the construction site at an unknown date/time. He doesn't know where and didn't file a police report for that reason. It will be interesting what the investigation shows.
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The guy who took the video and had no part in the shooting has received death threats and the mother of the victim is saying he should go to prison for life, too.

I know if I owned that house I wouldn't want to be on the record saying anything that would help the defense. It wouldn't end well for me. Hell, I'd be lighting candles at his vigil. Doesn't mean I felt that way. Just a matter of self preservation. I wouldn't want my life threatened or property destroyed.
 
kbm6893 said:
The guy who took the video and had no part in the shooting has received death threats and the mother of the victim is saying he should go to prison for life, too.

I know if I owned that house I wouldn't want to be on the record saying anything that would help the defense. It wouldn't end well for me. Hell, I'd be lighting candles at his vigil. Doesn't mean I felt that way. Just a matter of self preservation. I wouldn't want my life threatened or property destroyed.
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This is (perhaps) the worst part of these racially charged incidents.

The truth becomes the victim. It no longer matters in the end what is true...or what the law says...it's optics, narrative and "my side right or wrong".

Sometimes an event can have tragic consequences even when the individuals, (on both sides of it), are less than perfect, and culpable in varying degrees.

We need to stop making folk heroes, altar boys, and / or villains out of individuals who otherwise don't meet the standards.

This case should play out on its merits. Everyone involved in this event should be accountable for their actions and the role they played in its outcome...according to the law.
 
Tyree1867 said:
You need to keep in mind that no country that has a British government background has a Bill of Rights like the US. All they have are what their legislatures have given them. What politicians give they can & have taken away. The US is different, so don't think politicians can just eliminate our God given rights.
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Don't think politicians can't alter the law. They do it all the time.
 
Tyree1867 said:
You need to keep in mind that no country that has a British government background has a Bill of Rights like the US. All they have are what their legislatures have given them. What politicians give they can & have taken away. The US is different, so don't think politicians can just eliminate our God given rights.
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kbm6893 said:
The guy who took the video and had no part in the shooting has received death threats and the mother of the victim is saying he should go to prison for life, too.

I know if I owned that house I wouldn't want to be on the record saying anything that would help the defense. It wouldn't end well for me. Hell, I'd be lighting candles at his vigil. Doesn't mean I felt that way. Just a matter of self preservation. I wouldn't want my life threatened or property destroyed.
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I guess what matters are the facts. The guy is telling the truth as he knows it. Whether that helps the prosecution or defense should be irrelevant. I realize in today's society he will be criticized by both sides, because frankly everyone has an opinion, and are not ashamed to share it. No matter the actual facts.
 
fredj338 said:
....

Btw, gets a bit old bashing kalif. I dont support much that goes on here but Florida, Texas, Co, all have places that support stupid policies with stupid people supportng them.
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You don't see the irony in you saying it gets old people bashing California and you calling it Kalif to emphasis the Soviet style spelling?
 
forrestinmathews said:
He ran around the passenger side of the truck. He wasn't impeded on that side. Why didn't he keep on jogging? Because he was not an innocent person. Should be end of the story, but the DA will have to make a show for the public so that everyone feels like something was done even if there is nothing to be done.
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Now how do you know that?
 
LPD256 said:
The guy that owns the new construction house wasn't concerned, says he didn't report anything, doesn't know the McMichaels, and said reports of fishing equipment being stolen are greatly exaggerated. He knows of no burglaries in the area. He said some guns were stolen from a truck that was unlocked one time. (McMichaels truck) His fishing poles could have been stolen from his boat at his home or the construction site at an unknown date/time. He doesn't know where and didn't file a police report for that reason. It will be interesting what the investigation shows.
Click to expand...

Could it be that he doesn't want his house burned down, or the mob to track him down ?
 
fredj338, you've gone on and on about Zimmerman. That one clearly disturbed you.

If someone was following you, you do not therefore have the right to stop and beat the man. What you have a right to do is talk to the person, ignore him, walk or run away from him, and even call the police on him. You do not have the right to begin beating the person, to pin him down, and pound his head into the sidewalk. If you did the latter, the person might even have the right to shoot you.
 
bulletslap said:
Could it be that he doesn't want his house burned down, or the mob to track him down ?
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Anything is possible, but most of what he said is easily verifiable. Are there any Police reports of burglaries in the area? Did he report the fishing pole theft to anyone? Have he and the McMichaels has contact? Had he ever had contact with Arbery? Is he afraid of "the mob"? Good questions an investigator will surely ask.
 
Ziggy2525 said:
You don't see the irony in you saying it gets old people bashing California and you calling it Kalif to emphasis the Soviet style spelling?
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Like said, I live here but dont support the statsi policies. The high & mighty bs of so called red states that gets thrown around gets old, and isnt so clear cut anymore. Every red state has a liberal strong hold with bad policy that can affect the entire state over time. Look where Co has gone & Texas is going.
 
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vt_shooter said:
fredj338, you've gone on and on about Zimmerman. That one clearly disturbed you.

If someone was following you, you do not therefore have the right to stop and beat the man. What you have a right to do is talk to the person, ignore him, walk or run away from him, and even call the police on him. You do not have the right to begin beating the person, to pin him down, and pound his head into the sidewalk. If you did the latter, the person might even have the right to shoot you.
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No what disturbs me is gun owners that think their gun gives them a certain position of authority. So ask yourself, would I get involved with this if I wasnt carrying a gun? If your answer is no, then don't. Zimmerman was a total moron. He put himself into a situation where he would not have if unarmed. i dont see much diff in this current mess. Sure Zimmerman was justified in defending himself, but placed himself in that confrontation. Not inlike this current bs.
Flip it around. If it was a white guy in a black neighborhood doing exactly the same thing & two blacks pulled up with guns & the white guy got killed, pretty sure a totally diff story line. Pretty sure it wouldnt have taken more than a few days to indite them. How people cant see this is disturbing to me but I really am not surprised.
 
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fredj338 said:
Flip it around. If it was a white guy in a black neighborhood doing exactly the same thing & two blacks pulled up with guns & the white guy got killed, pretty sure a totally diff story line. Pretty sure it wouldnt have taken more than a few days to indite them. How people cant see this is disturbing to me but I really am not surprised.
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Maybe, maybe not. There is a lot of stuff that doesn't make the front page that would make your hair stand up.

After the Rodney King incident, I was sickened by some black LEOs I worked with justifying the Reginald Denny beating by saying black folks weren't going to take it anymore. I couldn't have been more disappointed or disgusted to hear it. I told them I thought they should turn in their badges if they felt that way.

Hate crimes of any stripe are abhorrent. The law, and law enforcement should be color blind. I can only speak for myself, but I have never allowed race to color my actions. I believe the same would be true of most of us. At least I want to believe it.

And there is a place for those who wouldn't...
 
bulletslap said:
About the Zimmer case, as I recall the story that he chased Martin down was BS.

And most likely if Zimmerman had of be unarmed he would have likely have sustained serious life threatening injuries.
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Correct.... Zimmerman lived in the Condo complex which had turned into a Dope hole complete with vehicle/ residential burglaries in the Complex. He Volunteered to be the designated Crime Watch person and arrived home to see a Subject walking between buildings in the rain...He called Sanford Police and was on a taped line, giving a description when he lost sight of Martin.

The Complaint Officer( non-sworn) asked " What is he doing now?" Zimmerman exited his Vehicle and attempted to locate the Subject. The C.O . than asked" Are you following him?" When Z advised yes, the C.O. Stated " Don't do that"

As He was returning to his Vehicle ,he was suddenly and violently attacked and knocked to the ground. Neighbors testified at the Trial they heard him screaming for help.This resulted in additional calls to 911.....As his head was repeatedly smashed against the concrete walkway, he managed to produce his 9mm keltec, firing one shot at point blank range.

Responding Units finally arrived and Z was treated for his injuries by Fire-Rescue @ the P.D. It wasn't until several hours later that Martin was Identified by his Father who had been out with the Female who lived at the Complex.


To get back to THIS case, did the McMichaels ever call this in, as they should have, before attempting to apprehend the Subject? What crime had the Victim committed that they witnessed or were aware of? What was the justification for them getting involved? Why not use common sense and call it in and follow at a safe distance until a Marked Unit arrived, instead of a confrontation with a shotgun?

No, these two cases are completely different.
 
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More info, here:

Suspects in Arbery shooting had earlier neighborhood confrontation

There's a lot more info that will be forthcoming.

Unfortunately, this seems to be an event that many are taking an
emotional approach to (regardless of "side")--with the existing info
and video, there's still a lot of misinformation being bandied about,
even tho the vid and info directly contravene it.
 
If my wife and I were safe, there is nothing in my house that I would kill anybody over for taking.

In fact, I often leave the front door unlocked, and once my wife is safely in the truck, I go back into the house , secure a $100 bill to the collar of her yippy *** dog along with a note that says TAKE ME, AND THIS MONEY IS YOURS, and leave the door slightly ajar when I leave.
 
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