The Ammo Shortage. What is the real truth. Questions.

[ladyT]

The people who make it said they were running at full capacity.

Yet the big retailers were not getting any shipments and what little showed up in their stores were just boxes of this or that caliber if they were lucky.

Yet you could find it online on gunbroker and other websites in whatever quantity you wanted but at significantly higher prices.

So where did the ammo go? You and I know it wasn't on the shelf.

Everybody blamed those showing up on delivery day as the ones causing this shortage yet if you were there like I was you knew there was nothing to buy.
more often then not.

You were lucky to be able to buy even a single box of ammo.

Buying by the case was only possible on the websites that popped up overnight and on gunbroker. Nothing from Midway or the other big online sites as we were hit with the no backorder allowed tag.


So where did the ammo go when it left the plant?

As I started looking I noticed new sites coming online in January. Sites used by brick and motor shops to sell their ammo on gunbroker at exorbitant prices.

New independent sites coming online just to take advantage of the situation.

The one thing these folks had in common was a constant supply of ammo yet you and I were finding little if any ammo on the big retailers shelves.


How did they get the ammo and the likes of Academy,
and WalMart didn't.

 

[chief38]

Lots of factors here:

1) The Dept. of Homeland Security alone ordered 1.2 BILLION rounds of .40 S&W which in essence ties up Federals and Winchester's production lines for commercial ammo.

2) Hoarding by us.

3) A record number of new gun owners who figured it's now or never because of new gun laws and pending legislation.

4) Some say that the big chain stores have plenty of ammo but are releasing it slowly and purposefully to create a demand which in essence keeps the demand up and the prices high.

5) Some say that since all lead harvesting and smelting here in the US has come to a halt (new Gov't EPA Regs.) lead has been hard to get.

If you roll all these factors up it creates the scenario we have seen over the last few years and is still going on.

 

[pownal55]

I agree with chief38 , however this was not a gradual problem it seemed to happen overnight. It seems fishy but the big retailers would not be able to keep it quiet this long if they knew something We don't. The complaints would be coming from them too.

 

[chief38]

I agree with chief38 , however this was not a gradual problem it seemed to happen overnight. It seems fishy but the big retailers would not be able to keep it quiet this long if they knew something We don't. The complaints would be coming from them too.

i don't think it's a secret - we all know what's going on here but we are not supposed to talk politics on the Forum so I'd better stop here.

 

[KKECK5]

Got to say that i'm finding most ammo pretty easy these days. 22LR are still touch and go, and .380's are hard to find. However, most other ammo is back. Maybe not in great quantities, but it's there. I don't make special trips or ammo runs...If i'm in the store, i'll just wander over to check the stock. Sometimes, it's just your day.

 

[Practical]

There is little ammo to find at walmart here in NY. The NY safe act which will require background checks on all ammo purchases. Also the fact that we can't buy ammo online anymore and the NY State police can pay us a visit if we buy TOO much ammo and the amount of ammo which is too much is not defined in the statute makes NY'ers a bit nervous.

I have not seen any 22 ammo except 22 short at our walmart in about a year.

 

[kaaskop49]

Parallel universe?

And where is 9mm ammunition? I'm not talking about the gee-whiz HPs and boutique loads. I haven't seen simple 9mm hardball since this panic began. Also hard to understand: some foreign mfgs have tried to step in and furnish some loads, i.e. 12 gauge from Spain and .357 from Eastern Europe. Why is there no foreign mfg 9mm ball?

 

[shocker]

The local Dunham's has plenty of everything except 22 lr and their weekly shipment of same is taking a whole day to sell out. I got four 50 ct boxes of thunderbolts for 2.19 each on Wednesday afternoon.

One clerk had the idea that a lot of ammo is exported through unofficial channels. More likely South than North, I think.

 

[HeyJoe]

There is little ammo to find at walmart here in NY. The NY safe act which will require background checks on all ammo purchases. Also the fact that we can't buy ammo online anymore and the NY State police can pay us a visit if we buy TOO much ammo and the amount of ammo which is too much is not defined in the statute makes NY'ers a bit nervous.

I have not seen any 22 ammo except 22 short at our walmart in about a year.

dont answer the door

good question on where has the ammo been for almost a year now. i saw the first box in 11 months of .38 in walmart the other night and bought it. the feds buy a lot of ammo every year for qualifications, so even if they bought more this last year it wasnt 1.2 billion rounds more. people with connections to distributors getting the ammo and selling it online before it ever got to the store added to the shortage perhaps. i think its a combination of many factors hitting at once. kind of like a perfect storm.

 

[shawn mccarver]

The Homeland Security contract had little, if anything to do with the situation. Like all of the government agencies, their contracting methods seem like a foreign language to ordinary folks. Basically, they want a contract that will guarantee a fixed price for a certain time period or a certain number of whatever they are buying. Sometimes, the contracts are indefinite time/quantity. Often, they are written with enough quantity that other agencies can piggy-back to avoid the lengthy and often frustrating process of doing a new Request for Proposal (RFP).

Just because a government contract is for a certain number of rounds over a certain number of years, does NOT mean that they are buying it all NOW, or that they will ever buy all that is allowed. The bottom line is that actual DHS ammo purchases are down from 2010. 148 Million rounds in 2010, down to 103 Million rounds in 2012.

DHS is the umbrella agency for several large LE agencies which dwarf the size of FBI, DEA etc. They have perhaps 100,000 armed people that all have to have duty ammo and practice ammo for quarterly qualifications.

The numbers translate to about 1,030 rounds per officer per year. Since many agencies issue new duty ammo at each qualification, and assuming each officer carries 46 rounds of ammo, that means 184 rounds are used for duty in a year, leaving 846 rounds for four qualifications and the practice sessions supporting those qualification sessions. That translates to about 211 rounds per quarter used for practice and qualification. That does not sound like much to me.

In addition, officials at Federal, Winchester, Remington and Steve Hornady himself have all made publicly released statements that the DHS contracts have little impact on the total numbers of rounds made and sold, and that there is no conspiracy within the government to buy huge amounts of ammo so as to stockpile it to either deprive us or to keep it for use against us.

Never underestimate the tremendous power that even a relatively small percentage of the American public acting in unison has upon the economy. People who thought they were well stocked with two boxes of each caliber now feel inadequately stocked with a case of each caliber. That is really the source of it. Steve Hornady's quote probably sums it up best.

See this article, which has the direct quotes from the Big Three ammo makers and Steve Hornady:

Is The Obama Administration The Cause Of Gun Ammunition Shortages? - Forbes

NOTE: I fully expect that some will simply believe that all of the ammo makers were threatened with IRS audits, extorted by black bag secret agent types, or otherwise "told" by someone to speak up in favor of the government, or else. Until proven untrustworthy, I believe Steve Hornady especially. I do not believe there is a Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse hidden away with stockpiles of ammo just sitting there for "disarmament day." LOL

 

[gregintenn]

Who is John Galt?

 

[Marshall 357]

Yes .22 and 9mm are still hard to find..And when you find .22 Ammo it is just as much money as 9mm..I hardly shoot .22 and don't own a 9mm...just wish I could find some brass... I like reloading when its cold out side .

 

[Murdock]

I am convinced this is a "perfect storm," with our own panic being the salient factor.

The largest gun store in Maine informed me during a recent visit that they are still able to wholesale order and receive ammunition as before the panic. It simply leaves the shelves quickly.

I travel a good deal in my work, and have stopped at many Super Wall Marts in several states out of curiosity. They are always pretty bare except for less commonly used rifle calibers and birdshot. My local store here in Maine had three 250-round boxes of 9mm ball recently. I bought one, and the clerk was surprised that I didn't want all three. (I did call a buddy and asked him if he wanted me to buy some for him, and I suspect that many of us are doing this sort of thing for our friends and families. He declined, BTW). Another WM clerk on a different day said the ammo got unloaded each night, but they never knew what was going to be on board. The store opens early and the popular stuff goes quickly.

Don't forget that we are still involved in two wars, driving up the cost and demand for copper, brass and lead.

My general sense is that supplies on most dealers' shelves are slowly building, and that things will improve. Just look at how many used and new black guns are appearing for sale now at pre-panic prices.

 

[MichiganScott]

There seems to be a lot of shooters looking for black helicopters and wearing tin foil hats these days.

We are our own worst enemy. I'd bet members on this forum have as much ammo stocked up as the Home Security Agency ordered. I started stocking up on ammo, powder, and primers six years ago.

 

[Engineer1911]

Another shortage comparison

A former neighbor was a Texaco regional manager during the late 1970's and 1980's. He made the statement that 70% of the cars on the road had less than 1/4 of a tank of gasoline in them. A supply crisis in gasoline is instantly created when all those cars drive around with full tanks of gasoline when the American public hears the dreaded words "gas shortage".

The shooting public has done the same thing to itself with ammo, reloading equipment, and ammunition components.

 

[kenjen]

what I find hard to understand is why you can't get ammo at Wal-Mart, or most any other store for that matter, but the dealer down the road who is now turning his store it to an internet sales only, has every kind of ammo, piled 4 foot high, from 22's to 50bmg's and will only sell at the inflated prices that people are willing to pay on the net. it seems to me he has no problem getting all the ammo he wants.

 

[Murdock]

what I find hard to understand is why you can't get ammo at Wal-Mart, or most any other store for that matter, but the dealer down the road who is now turning his store it to an internet sales only, has every kind of ammo, piled 4 foot high, from 22's to 50bmg's and will only sell at the inflated prices that people are willing to pay on the net. it seems to me he has no problem getting all the ammo he wants.

His shelves are stocked because he is selling high. Larger retaiers are the first ones tried and they sell out faster because their prices are lower.

 

[DWalt]

At least in my area, the gun show dealers seem to have an abundance of everything, but at high prices. So does the local bulk ammo store (we have one). Academy seems to have full shelves except for .22. I haven't visited the local Cabella's, BPS, or Gander Mountain recently, so I do not know about them. Wal-Mart seldom has anything out except shotshells.

 

[Arik]

This again? !?! My area has just about everything. I can buy 223, 9mm, 45.....etc etc etc in bulk or by the box. Walmart does not sell guns or ammo in my area so I don't count them. The closest Bass Pro, Academy or Cabelas is at least 1.5 hours away so I don't count them either. All my local ammo buying is "mom & pop" LGS.

So far I see better deals online. I can buy 2180 rounds of 5.45x39 for $360. That's 16 cents a round. 500 rounds of 7.62x39 for $120 or $4.79/box of 20


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[kenjen]

His shelves are stocked because he is selling high. Larger retaiers are the first ones tried and they sell out faster because their prices are lower.

I see what you are saying but he is going through the ammo as fast as it's coming in. ups trucks coming and going 2 times a day. semi truck loads coming in weekly. I think people are buying it because they can get it no mater the cost. plus they offer free shipping on all ammo sells.