The Day after the schootings in a German school ..

[Hermann]

Yesterday a 17 year old killed 16 people in and around a German school near Stuttgart.
My son just came out of school today. They were told to hold a minute of silence this morning.
Right after this, there was a "special hour" were they were briefed on what to do in a similar case in their school.
After this there was the usual stuff: No knives, no cell phones, no weapons in school.
So far, so good - but then there was a one hour litany about guns.
Guns should never be in control of civilians, only law enforcement and the military should have weapons and so on.
My son asked the teacher, what would have happened in that school if a legal gun owner had the chance to just end this killing spree by shooting the killer before things got out of control. I mean the killer was more than 3 hours on the run.
His teacher did not give him an answer, just a mean look.
What can you say ...?

Oh, the media yesterday said it was a "big caliber" handgun, it turned out to be a 9mm Beretta, and they still don´t know if the guy killed himself or was killed by police.

 

[Hermann]

Yesterday a 17 year old killed 16 people in and around a German school near Stuttgart.
My son just came out of school today. They were told to hold a minute of silence this morning.
Right after this, there was a "special hour" were they were briefed on what to do in a similar case in their school.
After this there was the usual stuff: No knives, no cell phones, no weapons in school.
So far, so good - but then there was a one hour litany about guns.
Guns should never be in control of civilians, only law enforcement and the military should have weapons and so on.
My son asked the teacher, what would have happened in that school if a legal gun owner had the chance to just end this killing spree by shooting the killer before things got out of control. I mean the killer was more than 3 hours on the run.
His teacher did not give him an answer, just a mean look.
What can you say ...?

Oh, the media yesterday said it was a "big caliber" handgun, it turned out to be a 9mm Beretta, and they still don´t know if the guy killed himself or was killed by police.

 

[perpster]

Thanks for giving us the local angle Hermann. It seems German "authorities" have too short a memory of what happened in Germany last time only law enforcement and the military had guns. Many in the US have the same memory loss, including 45% of the US Supreme Court.

 

[beach elvis]

Just a godawful thing.

My experience in Germany was that the germans are a more, for lack of a better term, "civilized" bunch of folks than a lot of us. Try putting cigarette machines on poles like they have there out on the streets in the U.S. and see how long they'd stay intact, for example.

I'm also curious as to where he'd gotten the Beretta. You can't exactly walk into Fritz's Waffen Shop and leave with one.

Heartbreaking.

 

[NFrameFred]

Originally posted by beach elvis:


I'm also curious as to where he'd gotten the Beretta. You can't exactly walk into Fritz's Waffen Shop and leave with one.

.

Seems I heard that of the 17 (?) or so handguns his father owned, this is the only one that wasn't locked up.

 

[Hermann]

News say the boy´s father was a "Sport-Shooter", having had 17 weapons legally.
Only the one 9mm Beretta was not locked up in the safe and this is the gun the boy took.
It was stated he was a good shooter, but nevertheless he suffered from depressions and had professional treatment for it. Obviously he was bullied in school and was a very low profile kid with just few social contacts.
I think he just snaped.
Police is bragging about being on scene 3 minutes after the emergency call, but I´d like to ask why did it take them more than 3 hours to finally confront him 20 miles away from the school? Nevertheless he shot two policemen and then killed himself!

News statet just a minute ago, that there are 10 million guns legally owned and oficials estimate about 20 million guns are illegaly owned in Germany.
Now, being a legal gun owner really sucks over here - many many restrictions and regulations to follow, but this news report really makes me feel better!
(Sarcasm!)

 

[john3136]

Whenever anything like this happens anywhere in the world. I start to worry that the Australian government will see it as a chance to toughen our already super strict firearm laws.

 

[Douglas Haig]

Originally posted by Hermann:
nevertheless he suffered from depressions and had professional treatment for it. !)

Herman, I'd like to hear if he was drugged
in school by the administration using Ridalin or some other attention focusing medication. The overwhelming majority of our student murders were. Not to mention that ape who tore the womans face off.

 

[gunsmith11]

In Germany and Aussie, what do you have to do to purchase a firearm, and then what do you have to do to keep it in your home and use it for target shooting

 

[john3136]

Here we go

In Australia (state of Victoria) for a handgun:
1. Be a member of an approved club for a while
2. Get a handgun license (part of which includes the police recording your fingerprints)
3. After you've had a probationary license for a while (6 months?), you can buy a gun (some restrictions on type and number)
4. To get a gun: Fill in a Permission To Acquire form and send it to Licensing Services Division. On your first gun you have to wait for the 28 day cooling off period. LSD sends back your PTA, go to the bank and pay a fee, then go to the dealer and buy your gun.
5. Your handgun has to be stored in a safe separate to ammo (if < 150kg, bolted to the house).
6. So now you have a gun, you have to shoot a minimum number of times in a year (6 comps and 4 other times - varies depending on how many classes of gun you own)
7. Types of gun are limited, e.g. I think the min barrel length in 4inches.
Self defense is not an acceptable reason for any type of firearm.

I'm not too concerned by any of the existing laws - some are annoying (like having to send a PTA to get a gun, wait a week for it to come back, then go pay the fee THEN go get your new toy). What worries me is that will make it even harder !

The guy in the article above thinks there are loads of automatic handguns around: Huh ?

 

[gunsmith11]

Thanks that tales care of Aussie now where it the eastern front....i guess no ever where we live, there are hurdles to jump//just some are higher

 

[gunsmith11]

our new president scares the hell out of me. but none of my guns are on my goverment list, they do not come under my name

 

[gunsmith11]

oh i forgot, in case the goverment is monitoring this site,,,,I DONT HAVE ANY GUNS

 

[john3136]

Originally posted by gunsmith11:
oh i forgot, in case the goverment is monitoring this site,,,,I DONT HAVE ANY GUNS

See, that's one problem we don't have in Aus: The government already knows all the firearms I own.

I have heard our "new" PM (Rudd) is more accepting of guns than the old one (Howard). But typically once a government has some power, they don't give it up !

Heard a funny story about Howard:
After he was voted out here, he was giving a speech/interview in the USA (Texas) for something and someone asked what he was most proud of during his time as PM and he said "Gun control".
Perhaps he should have picked his audience a bit better...

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I'm waiting to hear "He stopped taking his medicine." The shooter in the Port Arthur massacre was also a mental case but Heaven Forbid that anyone suggest that people who have mental problems should be isolated until they can prove that they can behave properly in polite society.

 

[Hermann]

In Germany there are basicly 2 legal ways to get access to guns.
1. Be a member of a approved "Sport-Shooter" club for at least 12 months, then take a test for the safe handling and legal stuff about weapon ownership. You have to be 18 and no big calibers allowed under 21 years. Some have to take a psychological test to get ownership rights. Of course you will have to buy an approved safe for the gun and a separate safe to store the ammo. You will not get a permit if your police record shows anything in the past. You will loose the gun owner license for almost anything, like drunk driving etc. will immediately cancel you right to own a weapon.

The second way is getting a Hunting License. This takes a lot of time and money to get. The tests are hard, shooting skills tests and many
things are on the list, from legal stuff to animal anatomy to biology. The so called hunters bible, a book that covers the basics is about 800 pages!
After passing these tests you can buy only 2 handguns but as many shotguns and rifles you like.
Of course you also have to have liability insurance and many other obligations.

 

[Hermann]

Originally posted by Douglas Haig:

Originally posted by Hermann:
nevertheless he suffered from depressions and had professional treatment for it. !)

Herman, I'd like to hear if he was drugged
in school by the administration using Ridalin or some other attention focusing medication. The overwhelming majority of our student murders were. Not to mention that ape who tore the womans face off.

There are no reports he used any drugs, not Ritalin, nor other stuff. He learned how to shoot at the age of 10, intact family, no history of violence, just depressions.
He targeted girls and women, reason is unknown.
Used mostly headshots for quick killing.

I think he obviously snaped and decided it is enough for him and for a bunch of others.