The Dumbing Down of Handgun Shooting

[BE Mike]

I really am tired of seeing groups, yes they are groups (shotguns shoot patterns) of handguns being fired from 7 yards and less. Many of those groups are even fired from a rest with longer barreled guns. It doesn't really show me of what the gun is capable, the ammo or shooter. I suppose with so many people having smart phones with the capability of taking photos, some folks feel compelled to snap away and post their prowess on their favorite website. Aren't there handgunners out there, who have learned some basic fundamentals, who can actually fire groups at 15, 25 and 50 yards with a handgun? Don't even start telling me how irrelevant shooting a handgun beyond 7 yards is. That's just an excuse by folks too lazy to learn and train to get more proficient.

 

[Rule3]

Gee, never come to our range. Bunch of old guys sitting down shooting 5 yards from a rest.
Does it matter?

 

[mtgianni]

There are but many of their eyes are aging and few are into bragging and boasting pictures.

 

[lrrifleman]

Mike, have you been to an NRA 2700 (a.k.a. Precision Pistol Match) recently? Participation is declining rapidly! Twenty-seven hundred matches don't allow an excuse for poor marksmanship, which tends to be built in to the close-in run and gun action pistol/combat matches which tend to be quite popular. Very few people tend to push the limits of their pistols and marksmanship these days!

 

[mdf9183]

in 1969 when I first joined the pd our qualification was shooting once a month with one hand at 50 yds. as time went on and cities got cheap it changed to once a year shooting a TCLOSE mandated course. I have no idea what kind of a course they shoot now.

 

[Kurusu]

Call me "old school" then.

25 meters competition target:

Done this way: Video was made by a fellow club member from a training session.

YouTube

 

[Rustyt1953]

I am a 'point-n-shoot' devotee. With my mobility issues, I focus my range time on "up close" as that's where I believe any harmful threat will occur.

I stay in my lane. I couldn't tell you what or how well strangers in other divided lanes are shooting. Their proficiency will be of no aid to me when I need it.

Afterwards, in the common areas or lounge, I do try to exchange pleasantries with young shooters and staff to prove that old guys can be pleasant, encouraging and funny.

 

[Golddollar]

Remember, every one of those shooters, regardless of the discipline they engage in, is a vote for our side. We all had to start somewhere.

 

[ladder13]

I am a 'point-n-shoot' devotee. With my mobility issues, I focus my range time on "up close" as that's where I believe any harmful threat will occur.

I stay in my lane. I couldn't tell you what or how well strangers in other divided lanes are shooting. Their proficiency will be of no aid to me when I need it.

Afterwards, in the common areas or lounge, I do try to exchange pleasantries with young shooters and staff to prove that old guys can be pleasant, encouraging and funny.

Agreed ....none of us are what they once were.

Oh, is it they or we?

 

[Kurusu]

Agreed ....none of us are what they once were.

Oh, is it they or we?

Heck yeah! The older I get, the better I was.

 

[BE Mike]

I totally agree that those who have physical issues, should keep shooting at any distance and any position, if it either is for recreation and/or self-defense. It's good to keep doing what one is able. I too can't do most things as well as I could when I was younger. A lot of things I can't do at all!

 

[glenwolde]

Well, yeah. For sure. I don't talk about it with anybody (internet or in person) because it makes me seem like an arrogant *******.

Way back when I always shot at 25 yards. Because way back when that was the shortest distance available. It was hard at first. But hard makes you better. Now I shoot at 15 yards. Mostly because 25 yards is now hard to find for me and when I do it's a bunch of kids with .22 rifles. I don't want to take a spot from them.

15 yards is OK. I just scaled my targets down. I like to ask people how good a shot they are. I almost never get a definitive answer. When you do it's usually the best group they ever shot. Not how they do in the aggregate. If you can't answer that question, then you don't know. You can make up your own system (I did) but you should be able to express it in definitive terms.

 

[hoc9sw]

between cataracts, arthritis, and cancer, if I can shoot a decent group at 15 yards, I'm happy. Yes, I shoot rifles from a bench at 50 yards with iron sights and do half dollar groups.

But once upon a time I qualified expert marksman with a .45 and M1. The recoil of either today would leave me bruised and in pain.

This old fart just keeps trying.

 

[LVSteve]

It's not so much a dumbing down as a change in emphasis. Defensive and speed shooting are all the rage. If someone can bench a handgun slow fire and shoot a 4" group at 25 yards I'm impressed. If they can do it standing unsupported I'm really impressed. But I'm similarly impressed by the guy who can stick 5/10 rounds in a 6" circle at 7-10 yards at more than one round per second, the "dealing with a crack/meth head" scenario.

The big obstacle to getting 25 or 50 yard proficient is time. People just have too much other stuff to do these days.

 

[gman51]

Most all of my target paper punching is from 10 yards out. I don't see much point in shooting from under that distance. I have few constant bulls eye 10 ring pattern hits but my patterns are fairly close enough for defensive effects.
If in a bad situation I had to shoot at 5 yards I would probably have a recoil in my pants.

 

[rockquarry]

I really am tired of seeing groups, yes they are groups (shotguns shoot patterns) of handguns being fired from 7 yards and less. Many of those groups are even fired from a rest with longer barreled guns. It doesn't really show me of what the gun is capable, the ammo or shooter. I suppose with so many people having smart phones with the capability of taking photos, some folks feel compelled to snap away and post their prowess on their favorite website. Aren't there handgunners out there, who have learned some basic fundamentals, who can actually fire groups at 15, 25 and 50 yards with a handgun? Don't even start telling me how irrelevant shooting a handgun beyond 7 yards is. That's just an excuse by folks too lazy to learn and train to get more proficient.

I completely agree. I've mentioned the same thing on here a number of times. The concept of shooting to improve skills seems to be quite foreign to many. They'd rather discuss gunfighting theory, +P, bullet construction, and jello penetration. Hitting a target consistently is very secondary.

Reasonable preparedness for self-defense is good, but it's difficult for me to understand handgun shooting as some all-consuming passion with what might happen. I prefer to improve my shooting skills but have a long way to go. Shooting up close is less than challenging and it masks our shortcomings and shows that even the sorriest of ammunition is accurate.

I shoot handguns often at a private club range. Seldom do I see any shooter practicing at distances greater than fifteen yards and many shoot much closer than that. No one uses revolvers. Most have some type of semi-automatic polymer pistol. I've never had such a pistol so don't really know if they are inaccurate beyond short distances or not.

I can certainly understand the elderly and /or someone with physical impairments shooting at short distances only; just glad to see these folks shooting.

 

[brucev]

Form follows function. The overwhelming need of most folks using handguns is not the skill to hit a running rabbit at 50 - 70 yds. or the care necessary to be able to snap the head off a rattlesnake, etc. as one's mount bucks and turns. The overwhelming need of most folks is to have a handgun with which they may enjoy time at the range and that they can if necessary use to defend themselves and their loved ones from a criminal attack.

Form follows function. When I first started shooting a pistol, targets were set at 25 yds. and consisted of concentric scoring rings, etc. Almost all firing was single-action with one hand hold. We shot mostly a six o'clock hold. Nowadays one shoots humanoid targets w/ two hands firing from the draw at distances from maybe 4-5 yds. on out to 25 yds. Most folks put emphasis on distances from 4-5 yds. out to 15 yds. Makes sense. Few will ever need to shoot across a 45 foot den or bedroom. Most such shooting will be maybe 25 foot or so.

Form follows function. When I began shooting, a six shot K-frame revolver in .38 Special or .357 Magnum was the norm with most folks firing .38 wadcutters. Fast forward to today. The 9mm is the .38 Special of our day with the Glock 17 taking the place of the K-frame. Shooting is almost always a two-handed hold. Few ever fire at a bullseye decimal target. Most shoot humanoid targets of one form or another.

Form follows function. The school of hard knocks has graduated a number of folks who hold degrees in the black and blue reality that there is far more to effectively using a handgun than simply plunking a bullet into a scoring ring. Getting rounds on target, firing and moving, use of cover, etc. are big considerations.

Form follows function. When shooting a local match at the police range, I use a revolver w/ a maximum barrel length of 5 inches. That complies with the rules which oddly enough stipulate a five inch maximum. Of course that suits those who want to use 5 inch 1911 type pistols. I do right well in such matches. My loads are .38 Special LSWC b/c they cut a nice easy to score round hole in the paper. I've also been known to use a 625-2. Again, nice round holes ... just bigger.

However, the the overwhelming vast majority of shooters will be using semi-automatics. Many will do very well right on out to 25 yds. They will do so shooting far faster than was once the norm. The ones who win will be the ones who have time and money to practice. They will use semi-automatics not revolvers. If they could do better with a revolver, they'd use a revolver. One sees the same thing with rifle matches where the AR-15/5.56mm has virtually put the M-1/M-14 on the sidelines when it comes to winning. It doesn't suit me. But, that's just the way things go. Form follows function. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[Texas Star]

I think many older guys need to have cataracts removed.

It made a world of difference for me!

Young shooters at 5-10 yards just need instruction and practice. Seeing a good shot demo what a pistol can do might inspire them.

I recall a reporter for a TV station who saw Elmer Keith shoot at 200 yards one day, about 1979. He had great difficulty believing what he saw. And Elmer was then in hiis 70's!

 

[Mule Packer]

Dang. I guess I'm one of the guilty parties...at least I sure was yesterday. Picked up a new Springfield stainless steel 1911 Range Officer in 9mm a few days ago. Took it home and cleaned it thoroughly. Packed it off to the range yesterday. Ran the target out to 25 yards, fired five shots and nothing!! What??!! Tried it again...five shots. Nowhere on the paper!

Granted, I'm not one of those guys you'll see at the line at the National Trophy Pistol Team Match, but I sure as heck didn't think I was that bad!!

So, I confess, I brought the target back to 7 yards. Fired five shots. All five managed to clip the bottom left-hand edge of the target. After firing a few more magazines at the 7-yard range, and doing some serious dialing in, I was able to run the target out again.

So before you demean all of us for shooting at close range, there just may be a few of us who are trying to figure out just where the heck a new gun is shooting.

Of course, you see the same kind of pomposity at the rifle range, too. The guys who are shooting out to 600 yards think those who sight their rifles in at only 200 yards are either wimps or can't shoot worth a darn. I guess you can't win no matter what.

I think Muss Muggins is right when he says things are falling apart "when we have gun owners taking umbrage with the manner in which other gun owners enjoy the sport . . . "

 

[Kiwi cop]

As a competition shooter I have seen someone take a 20 meter cross range hit at a 6" square steel target and hit it instead of crossing the range to take it a 10 meters. And I have seen shooters empty half a magazine at an 8" disc at 10 meters. (Actually I once saw a shooter empty every mag on his belt to hit the last (6th) steel bowling pin outline left standing on a rack at about 12 meters, over 50 cases left at his feet and the pin still standing).

At my club we have two falling plate racks. Every club day there are half a dozen shooters on the range using handguns and .22 rifles, all from the 15 yard line. No-one shoots from further back

I like to know I can hit a target freehand from further back than that. Last weekend I was shooting the plates at 10 and 15 yards after resighting my pistol. I had one round left so walked back to the 25 yard line. Carefully sighting I hit the plate I was aiming for.

Most shooters at my club participate for the social aspect. Less than half shoot in competitions. Most struggle to hit a target under competition pressure. I guess that's just the way it is.