the gray guy

[BSA1]

crc4,

Ah! This self-confidence and knowledgeable of youth. Nice fantasy story.

Unaimed shooting from inside the jacket pocket. Besides what makes you think you will score a incapacitating hit on the bad guy what makes you think your gun won't jam from the fabric damaged by the first shot? Have you actually tried it? The result may not be what you expect. Not to mention the poor stopping power of the .38 Special from the 2" J-Frame.

While you have handicapped yourself with unaimed shots from a weak cartridge and gun combination I have a full size Beretta 92FS with at least 15 rounds of full power +P JHP's.

So how are you going to move your hand to your gun without telegraphing it when the bad guy(s) say Don't Move?

What kind of holster do you think Open Carry is? A cartridge belt with loops filled with ammunition and a drop loop holster like on westerns? A black handgun carried on a high ride black holster on the belt is not very noticeable. Or how about semi-open carry with gun in a iwb holster but without a covering garment?

 

[steelslaver]

I sometimes pocket carry. But, if I was a robber I would certainly be on the look out for guys reaching under their clothes or sticking their hands in their pockets.

The strung out druggie robber is one thing and a robber robber or worse yet a robbery team is a whole different thing. Plus, not all druggies are stupid.

I don't care how you carry or how much you practice, not many of us are going to beat a person with an already drawn gun. In all reality very few would beat him even if he shot the open carry guy first. It ain't the movies or TV

 

[crc4]

crc4,

Ah! This self-confidence and knowledgeable of youth. Nice fantasy story.

Unaimed shooting from inside the jacket pocket. Besides what makes you think you will score a incapacitating hit on the bad guy what makes you think your gun won't jam from the fabric damaged by the first shot? Have you actually tried it? The result may not be what you expect. Not to mention the poor stopping power of the .38 Special from the 2" J-Frame.

While you have handicapped yourself with unaimed shots from a weak cartridge and gun combination I have a full size Beretta 92FS with at least 15 rounds of full power +P JHP's.

So how are you going to move your hand to your gun without telegraphing it when the bad guy(s) say Don't Move?

What kind of holster do you think Open Carry is? A cartridge belt with loops filled with ammunition and a drop loop holster like on westerns? A black handgun carried on a high ride black holster on the belt is not very noticeable. Or how about semi-open carry with gun in a iwb holster but without a covering garment?

Ah! The self-confidence and faux knowledge of assumptions.

I'm 70, former LEO, been carrying since 1973. I was taught by an old police detective about shooting through jacket pockets. I've done so since 1975. It works. Not with autos, not with exposed hammers. It works with shrouded hammers. It's also a technique taught by Mas Ayoob.

Please notice I said I carry the Bodyguard as a back up gun. I also carry a CZ 75B or 97B as my primary. Sorry you missed that 'back-up' I wrote.

People have hands in pockets as routine. That's the reason LE wants to see hands NOT in pockets. My hand is on my Bodyguard in elevators, close quarters and tight spaces in public. The hand is the first and best place to have a handgun. See Mas Ayoob, again.

Two uniformed police officers I worked with were shot when a crook decided to take their guns. One was killed, the other was shot in the head and lived, but found it difficult to do simple addition.

In both cases it was a single assailant, not a gang.

Too many open carriers are like rookie police officers. They want others to notice they're carrying a gun, "Look At Me! I'm Packing! I'm Tough! I'm Important." If the rookie lives long enough he will realize that was stupid ego thinking and will conceal carry for its benefit.

For those interested, here's Mas Ayoob's latest article in GUNS magazine. GUNS Magazine Stealth Draw - GUNS Magazine


Carry how you wish. It doesn't matter to me. It's my goal to be the alive gray guy reading the news of how another ego-driven open carrier will be buried in a closed-casket ceremony.

 

[BSA1]

crc4,

70 years old. Based on your description of your fast draw were you taught by Jelly Brice?

I am not a fan of Mas Ayoob. At one time I was until experience taught in me differently. Ayoob was never a real full time leo and if he had any real street experience. I have never read of him arresting violent criminals. My respect for him when out the window when he testified in a local murder case. He testified for the defense of a man that while inside his kitchen shot through the window hitting and killing a unarmed kid that was breaking into his car that was in his driveway. The case drew a lot of local attention. There was a picture in the newspaper of a beaming Ayoob (who isn't very tall) standing with the Defense Attorney outside of the Courtroom after they won their case. Sadly this was years ago in pre-internet days so I have never been able to find the case and am not willing to pay the research fee to the newspaper to get their articles on it. I have wrote to Ayoob asking he discuss the case in one of his magazine articles but he never answered me.

But he has made a good career as a gun 'righter and convinced a lot of people that he is a 'xpert and I often used "weaselcraft" in the winter when making a traffic stop. (Here all this time I just thought it was a good street technique. Never knew it had a name).

Oh by the way the Earps were the aggressors and went looking for trouble.

So violent crime is so common where you live that having your hand on your Bodyguard when out in public may be a good strategy for you. Only thing is why are you relying on a cartridge that performs poorly from the 2" barrel? How can you draw your primary gun when you hand is in your pocket holding your little gun? Thankfully since I live in a low crime area I do not have the level of fear.

Your prejudices towards folks that open carry prevent a further non-emotional discussion.

 

[ladder13]

WOW, just WOW

 

[crc4]

crc4,

70 years old. Based on your description of your fast draw were you taught by Jelly Brice?

I am not a fan of Mas Ayoob. At one time I was until experience taught me differently. Ayoob was never a real full time leo and if he had any real street experience. I have never read of him arresting violent criminals. My respect for him when out the window when he testified in a local murder case. In testified for the defense of a man that while inside his kitchen shot through the window hitting and killing a unarmed kid that was breaking into his car that was in his driveway. The case drew a lot of local attention. There was a picture in the newspaper of a beaming Ayoob (who isn't very tall) standing with the Defense Attorney outside of the Courtroom after they won their case. Sadly this was years ago in pre-internet days so I have never been able to find the case and am not willing to pay the research fee to the newspaper to get their articles on it. I have wrote to Ayoob asking he discuss the case in one of his magazine articles but he never answered me.

But he has made a good career as a gun 'righter and convinced a lot of people that he is a 'xpert.

So violent crime is so common where you live that having your hand on your Bodyguard when out in public may be a good strategy for you. Only thing is why are you relying on a cartridge that performs poorly from the 2" barrel? How can you draw your primary gun when you hand is in your pocket holding your little gun? Thankfully since I live in a low crime area I do not have the level of fear.

Your prejudices towards folks that open carry prevent a further non-emotional discussion.

You'll forgive me if I believe Mas Ayoob over an armchair warrior, but please present your credentials and expertise and I might change my mind.

I'm not prejudice against those who open carry. That's their right to do so. I just think that in 99% of the time that's foolish.

You are correct in that your position does prohibit an intelligent conversation going forward as you've been successfully refuted.

Have a nice day.

 

[robrossk]

Well ... I can in no way add to the last few seemingly expert and knowledgeable posts but ... I open carried for the first time a couple weeks ago. Me and a buddy were at an unsupervised open range. It is one of several maintained by our state Dept. of Natural Resources. There are three such ranges within two hours of me. I read that one location recently had an incident where firearms were stolen. You never know who may be there when you arrive or who might arrive while you are there firing. So my buddy has his P365 in pocket and I had my P365XL on right side OC. My belief is to each their own but open carry in busy or populated areas always seems to draw unnecessary attention. City of St. Louis is a prime example with youths open carrying AR's on the streets.

 

[tmd17]

... Or how about semi-open carry with gun in a iwb holster but without a covering garment?

Hmmmm.... what would that look like?

Not nearly as obvious as this close up picture makes it appear.

 

[BSA1]

Hmmmm.... what would that look like?

Not nearly as obvious as this close up picture makes it appear.

Just add a good quality IWB holster like the Sparks Executive Companion to keep it place.

 

[BSA1]

Dark slide and frame such as a M&P makes it even harder to see. The backward angle of the gun along with the tight fit from the belt makes it very difficult for someone to snatch the gun which some folks are so worried about.

 

[Smoke]

Hmmmm.... what would that look like?

Not nearly as obvious as this close up picture makes it appear.

That's open carry.

 

[mrchick]

And obvious.

 

[Miracle Man]

Again, for me, it's one of those "It depends" scenarios. When I'm in town, I carry concealed. On the other hand, when I'm in the back country with the pack string, do I open carry? You bet your bobsled I do...and I hope to heck everybody I pass on the trail notices it, too.

I hate to say this, but there are more and more crazies enjoying the back country than ever before and I would like them to be aware that they need to go find some other target for their shenanigans.

I'm right there with you. Whenever I'm "in town" or close to town, anything that's remotely around people. I'm 100% concealed carry. I don't want anybody to know I'm packing. I go to great lengths to conceal. To me it's just 1,000% better, increases your options if something does go down.

Now if I'm "out in the woods" as we'd say around here. Hunting, fishing, hiking, mushroom hunting, metal detecting, and so on. I'll open carry. Perhaps a 1911 or larger frame 9mm or 357 revolver? Depending on how far I'm walking, the terrain and so on.

 

[alwslate]

From the grey man to the grey gun for the best answer huh

 

[crc4]

From the grey man to the grey gun for the best answer huh

Only works at the School for the Blind.

 

[NFrameFred]

Since this is an open forum I will opine.

The OP is definitely not trolling and to accuse him of that is insulting.

I agree with that assessment. Typed a bit more expanding on what I've seen in a couple of threads here lately, but realize the futility of it and erased it - don't wish to upset the buttercups or add to the inevitable results. Time to dial it back . . . .

 

[tmd17]

Just add a good quality IWB holster like the Sparks Executive Companion to keep it place.

Take a closer look. That is a quality custom made to order leather IWB that I have worn for about 15 years now.

 

[Smoke]

I frequently see people walking around the VA with empty holsters. There's no place close to my VA clinic to park off property and walk into the building. So, it's a tacit admission that they're violating Federal Law by having a firearm in their vehicle on VA property.

To me, that's needlessly poking the bear. That's putting your future in the hands of the next VA cop you run into.