The impact of "NORML" and new marijuana laws

[ISCS Yoda]

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If the states continue to legalize marijuana, and the Federal government does not, how does one not violate the GCA of 68 when filling out a revised Form 4473?

Question 11e asks: "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

That is followed by this:

Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.


What is the impact on gun buyers in the states where marijuana is legalized? How does the Federal government/BATFE even THINK that they will get honest answers from people in the nearly 30 states where marijuana is legalized?

I'm just asking because I can see this about to be a 50 state issue. I don't need to play with illicit substances but when zillions of people are doing it I imagine someone, somewhere, is going to be the sad test case.

 

[sigp220.45]

This will be an interesting issue as more and more states legalize marijuana. My state already has, and I am told having a medical marijuana card will prevent the issuance of a concealed carry license. Of course here you don't need a card, but many folks have one because medical weed is cheaper.

 

[Muss Muggins]

As I understand it, and the 4473 is pretty clear on this, ATFE's present position is that any use or possession of marijuana, with a prescription or not, is a violation of federal law regardless of legality in the state, and a disqualifier for purchase or possession of a firearm. Under the present administration, this is unlikely to change . . .

 

[ladder13]

"Law abiding" gun owners are apparently breaking the law by not answering truthfully, at the present time.

 

[gman51]

I am surprised people don't have to take a "p" test to buy a gun or get a CHL.
Yep if you want to legally own a gun you better abstain from pot.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

So, I expected a response from Colorado, among other places.

Scenario........

You go to Colorado on vacation. During your vacation you meander into a marijuana store. You buy something and use it. Done and done.

You go home. You want to buy a new gun. Are you eligible?

This parallels a plot line in a "Blue Bloods" TV episode some time back. A very senior NYPD official used marijuana in Colorado that was purchased legally. He gets cashiered because the use is illegal in NYS/NYC.

This could be the beginning of a very bad situation for the gun industry and the gun buying public.

 

[nachogrande]

Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.


What is the impact on gun buyers in the states where marijuana is legalized? How does the Federal government/BATFE even THINK that they will get honest answers from people in the nearly 30 states where marijuana is legalized? [/QUOTE]

MAYBE it's been a while, or I just answered yes once & ALL the rest no, (a fast skim over for sure) cuz I don't remember that part. The last step being the pinky swear with the clerk, that I have answered everything truthfully, remains the same.

 

[arjay]

Considering that there are an awful lot of gun owners here and a lot of pot gets sold,I'm guessing law enforcement is tip toeing way around this mess

 

[Vbk76]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.balt...edical-marijuana-guns-20180104-story,amp.html

 

[Kiwi cop]

Let's take this a little further....

Cannabis stays in the blood for at least 3 weeks after consumption, the reason the number of cannabis involved motor vehicle fatalities in Colorado and Washington States rose dramatically in the 12 months after legalisation despite the overall number of road fatalities falling.

So, two weeks after consuming the drug in a jurisdiction where it is legal you are involved in a self defence shooting where the other person dies. You are required to give a blood sample for alcohol/drug analysis.

What are the consequences if:

A) Your are a cop in a jurisdiction where cannabis use is illegal?

B) Your are a cop in a jurisdiction where cannabis use is legal but the department has guidelines over permissible levels of alcohol/drugs while on duty?

C) You are not a cop and live in a jurisdiction where the prosecution are anti guns, and/or the deceased's survivors get a copy of the toxicology report and use it against you in a civil case?

Life is about choices and you have the right to make your own lifestyle choices. But you should understand the likely consequences of those choices.

In my case cannabis remains illegal (not that I use, even the smell makes me sick) but my department has some pretty strict guidelines about alcohol use before duty. In one case several years ago in my district a number of specialist armed responders turned out to one hostage situation/shooting while off duty and not on call out of a sense of responsibility. Most had consumed alcohol early in the evening and they all faced disciplinary action because of it.

 

[nachogrande]

OMG AM I GONNA TEST POSITIVE?

I recently just started using, the CBD (NON THC) oil for knee & asst pains. I better keep my eyes peeled for the man.

 

[DeathGrip]

This will be an interesting issue as more and more states legalize marijuana. My state already has, and I am told having a medical marijuana card will prevent the issuance of a concealed carry license. Of course here you don't need a card, but many folks have one because medical weed is cheaper.

Correct on the CCL. or so I've been informed by my LGS which is two doors down from a "clinic" where people go to get their prescription cards.


As far as price being less from the dispensaries, I couldn't tell you but I'm sure it beets the stoner down by the beach and is more consistent as far as availability. That could be important if the need were truly there.

 

[DeathGrip]

I am surprised people don't have to take a "p" test to buy a gun or get a CHL.
Yep if you want to legally own a gun you better abstain from pot.

As far as the here and now goes we don't have to produce evidence against ourselves. That is, unless you signed a contract.

My friend smokes and retired from a local municipal job a couple of years ago. I asked him how he got away with it and his response went something like, "I didn't sign a contract when I started there saying I had to pee in a cup and the union backs that."

Contracts are a little different now.

 

[sigp220.45]

Correct on the CCL. or so I've been informed by my LGS which is two doors down from a "clinic" where people go to get their prescription cards.


As far as price being less from the dispensaries, I couldn't tell you but I'm sure it beets the stoner down by the beach and is more consistent as far as availability. That could be important if the need were truly there.

The veteran's discount (really) brings recreational prices down to the medical price.

I think this will make for some interesting case law. Just having a medical weed card doesn't prove you use or possess marijuana - it just means you can. Maybe it gets scanned at the store at time of purchase and that info is logged somewhere, but then it would seem like HIPPA protection would kick in.

 

[Muss Muggins]

What is the impact on gun buyers in the states where marijuana is legalized? How does the Federal government/BATFE even THINK that they will get honest answers from people in the nearly 30 states where marijuana is legalized?

BATFE doesn't care. You buy a gun, you smoke a lot of weed, you get stopped for whatever, you're high, you have a gun, BATFE researches your legal purchase of marijuana, records of which are kept, you stay in jail. Case closed . . . .

 

[Golddollar]

What is the impact on gun buyers in the states where marijuana is legalized? How does the Federal government/BATFE even THINK that they will get honest answers from people in the nearly 30 states where marijuana is legalized?

I'm just asking because I can see this about to be a 50 state issue. I don't need to play with illicit substances but when zillions of people are doing it I imagine someone, somewhere, is going to be the sad test case.

Governments aren't waiting around. The Honolulu City Police ran gun registrations against the medical marijuana registrations and found 30 matches. Those folks got letters on HCP letterhead telling them to turn in their guns and ammunition within 30 days or transfer them to someone else. And anybody on the marijuana list will be denied future permits to purchase. Supposedly the Honolulu Police won't be going around house to house to confiscate their guns but that can always change.

 

[Ματθιας]

As far as the here and now goes we don't have to produce evidence against ourselves. That is, unless you signed a contract.

My friend smokes and retired from a local municipal job a couple of years ago. I asked him how he got away with it and his response went something like, "I didn't sign a contract when I started there saying I had to pee in a cup and the union backs that."

Contracts are a little different now.

The signature on the 4473 is the signer stating that the info is truthful and correct under penalty of law. That's kind of a contract.

 

[Ματθιας]

BATFE doesn't care. You buy a gun, you smoke a lot of weed, you get stopped for whatever, you're high, you have a gun, BATFE researches your legal purchase of marijuana, records of which are kept, you stay in jail. Case closed . . . .

I don't think local LE is going to bother with a federal gun law unless it's some horrific front page type crime. In fact, I don't think anybody has been prosecuted, federally, for sawed offs in a long long time. I could be wrong...

 

[Kiwi cop]

Governments aren't waiting around. The Honolulu City Police ran gun registrations against the medical marijuana registrations and found 30 matches. Those folks got letters on HCP letterhead telling them to turn in their guns and ammunition within 30 days or transfer them to someone else. And anybody on the marijuana list will be denied future permits to purchase. Supposedly the Honolulu Police won't be going around house to house to confiscate their guns but that can always change.

I don't know all the ins and outs of privacy laws in the US, but here that would be illegal. While there is some sharing of information (IRD and our social welfare organisation to catch benefit cheats, Customs, Immigration and Police for people coming into and out of the country) using health records for law enforcement is a big no no.

I can possibly see some lawsuits looming for HPD if it is the same there.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I don't think local LE is going to bother with a federal gun law unless it's some horrific front page type crime. In fact, I don't think anybody has been prosecuted, federally, for sawed offs in a long long time. I could be wrong...

Well, you'd lose money on that bet. First, since the feds are generally unimpeded by the local "politics," and the penalties are more certain and severe, local LE use them regularly for prosecuting local criminals who are constantly in trouble but don't seem to stay in jail long. "Hey, so and so doesn't have a felony, but he smokes weed all the time and has a gun." Boom, federal charge. As for sawed off prosecutions, I can introduce you to a couple people if you'd like . . .

 

[Rule3]

What happens if the Sun doesn't rise or the sky is falling?


Federal Law trumps State law, you expect logic? Why is pot even illegal, in the same class as heroin and LSD??



Is it legal to carry a CW in a pot store?


What if??


Time for popcorn

 

[nachogrande]

HOLY BIG BROTHER BATMAN.

Governments aren't waiting around. The Honolulu City Police ran gun registrations against the medical marijuana registrations and found 30 matches. Those folks got letters on HCP letterhead telling them to turn in their guns and ammunition within 30 days or transfer them to someone else. And anybody on the marijuana list will be denied future permits to purchase. Supposedly the Honolulu Police won't be going around house to house to confiscate their guns but that can always change.

#1 It seems to go against Hippa.
#2 I have a library card, I don't read a book a day.

 

[hoc9sw]

I had a discussion with someone who insisted that he only used THC-free CBD oil, and that I really need it for my cancer pain. I asked to see the lab certification from the producer that it was guaranteed THC-free.

I didn't get an answer on that. I'm not risking my situation for it.

As to HIPPA, that protects information you share with your doctor. Getting a MM purchase card is, in the cases I've seen mention of, something you do through local government. Since it involves something illegal at Federal level, I can't see it violating HIPPA.

Who knows where laws are going these days ....

 

[jag312]

I guess we all have to make a choice. Which is more important to us? Marijuana or our guns?

 

[Beemer-mark]

As to HIPPA, that protects information you share with your doctor.
Who knows where laws are going these days ....

Of course under Obama Care your information is computerized and shared with everyone, Russians included.

State law might legalize marijuana but Federal employers and contractors, and a huge host of private employers still require a drug test. And today a hair test is usually required which detects any illegal drug taken up to 6 months in the past.

 

[Ματθιας]

Well, you'd lose money on that bet. First, since the feds are generally unimpeded by the local "politics," and the penalties are more certain and severe, local LE use them regularly for prosecuting local criminals who are constantly in trouble but don't seem to stay in jail long. "Hey, so and so doesn't have a felony, but he smokes weed all the time and has a gun." Boom, federal charge. As for sawed off prosecutions, I can introduce you to a couple people if you'd like . . .

That's the case where you live. I should've clarified where I was talking about...

Where I live, NM, we have a catch and release program and politics is playing a role with our sanctuary cities and state politics in general. Our court system is appallingly bad. The perfect example of this is the training camp in Taos, with the 5 people and the dead three year old - three of them had their charges dropped yesterday.

The local DA is trying to send some of the really bad people to the feds but doesn't have enough people, funds, time, to cope with the workload he and his office have and everything keeps piling up. He, literally begging the state legislature for money to hire more people. Add to that the US Attorney for NM has to prioritize with all the illegal immigration cases, indian country, and everything else.

It's a mess.

 

[Muss Muggins]

It happens where you live as well. This 2017 case is the most recent that popped up on my inadequate Google search. There were several others . . .

Clovis Man Pleads Guilty to Violating Federal Firearms Laws by Possessing Unregistered Sawed-Off Shotgun | USAO-NM | Department of Justice

That's the case where you live. I should've clarified where I was talking about...

Where I live, NM, we have a catch and release program and politics is playing a role with our sanctuary cities and state politics in general. Our court system is appallingly bad. The perfect example of this is the training camp in Taos, with the 5 people and the dead three year old - three of them had their charges dropped yesterday.

The local DA is trying to send some of the really bad people to the feds but doesn't have enough people, funds, time, to cope with the workload he and his office have and everything keeps piling up. He, literally begging the state legislature for money to hire more people. Add to that the US Attorney for NM has to prioritize with all the illegal immigration cases, indian country, and everything else.

It's a mess.

 

[LVSteve]

I am surprised people don't have to take a "p" test to buy a gun or get a CHL.

DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS!!!

 

[Rule3]

I still do not understand the original question (well I actually do)


But you either lie, or don't smoke pot. If you have med license then you are doomed.



Why don't they ask if you are a functioning alcoholic? Because it is not against Federal law to buy alcohol. But alcohol is technically a depressant so if you are an alcoholic you can not buy a firearm as you are addicted. But most drunks will not admit they are.



Many drunks are violent. most pot smokers are not



It's a conundrum.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Alcohol is not a controlled substance . . .

(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance

Why don't they ask if you are a functioning alcoholic? Because it is not against Federal law to buy alcohol. But alcohol is technically a depressant so if you are an alcoholic you can not buy a firearm as you are addicted. But most drunks will not admit they are.