keith44spl
Member
Ya want to own/buy a gun???????
Don't smoke dope.
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Don't smoke dope.
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The impact of "NORML" and new marijuana laws
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
One can bush-lawyer this question to death, but ultimately it comes down to how you evaluate the risk and how important either pot or guns or both are to you.
The "reasonable person" standard gets referenced a lot. So what's a user? I drink alcoholic beverages on a fairly regular basis, but no reasonsble person who knows me would describe me as a drinker. So if I used pot occasionally, would I actually qualify as a user? As was mentioned above, do I have to be using at the time I sign the 4473 to mark yes? That question is clearly in the present tense.
Of course the answers are unlikely to be conclusive. That's how lawyers make their money. It sounds like in the Honolulu case, at least as it was presented here, the medical card was taken by the authorities as conclusive evidence of use. I'd be interested to know whether that has been challenged and stood up in court.
The "reasonable person" standard gets referenced a lot. So what's a user? I drink alcoholic beverages on a fairly regular basis, but no reasonsble person who knows me would describe me as a drinker. So if I used pot occasionally, would I actually qualify as a user? As was mentioned above, do I have to be using at the time I sign the 4473 to mark yes? That question is clearly in the present tense.
Of course the answers are unlikely to be conclusive. That's how lawyers make their money. It sounds like in the Honolulu case, at least as it was presented here, the medical card was taken by the authorities as conclusive evidence of use. I'd be interested to know whether that has been challenged and stood up in court.
No but it is a controlling substance. I figure someday we'll get smart and remove weed from Schedule I, treat it like cigarettes. Problem is, that would empty out the local lockup, no money in that. Joe
Two versions of CBD as a drug have been approved by the FDA, with the first being in the 1980s the second in June 2018. The only difference between the two (and the "Press" have not even mentioned the first one) is that the 1980s version was made synthetically in a lab, the later one was isolated and purified from a specific strain of the plant. The first one will not have any THC, the second may have enough to be found by very specific analytical systems. An interesting aspect is that the Federal Government approved both! Dave_n
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I am well aware of the classification of alcohol.
This is what happens when partially quoting.
The 4473 reads:
Question 11e asks: "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"
So depending on how you string those words together addicted , or ANY depressant
So we can let the lawyers and the Judges determine the wording if it is to mean controlled substance as that comes after addicted to any depressant. It does not say "and "
You could be a lawful user BUT be addicted.
My point is that alcohol is physically addicting, pot is not,
Alcohol causes far more damage than pot, but that is whole other topic. Of course alcohol used to be a "controlled" substance and we all know how well that worked out.
The whole topic is moot as I said before Federal Law trumps States when it comes to buying firearms.
This ^^^^^^^
And this ^^^^^^^^
nachogrande
Member
NO, BUT OTHERS ARE.
There is no shortage of people already on controlled substances AND class ll narcotics (the same class as MJ & heroin) that own, buy, sell, & LEGALY CC guns. The big difference (in my view) is that the other ( "harder") drugs are legal federally by a prescription. Can/should existing laws actually be enforced ? (as always YES!) & crackdowns on md's giving out MJ cards to dubious persons? (as well as opiod rx's) ABSOLUTELY! SHOULD the Govt recognize MJ as a legitimate medicine? (just like the many others?) IMO the blame/burden should not be on the sick that can benefit by it, while big Pharma or criminals make $ off it. Should some poor soul with serious health issues be denied (by healthy politicians) a theraputic substance, or be penalized for it when it is prescribed by an Md just like vicodin, fentanyl, oxy's??? NO, NOT IN MY BOOK.
There is no shortage of people already on controlled substances AND class ll narcotics (the same class as MJ & heroin) that own, buy, sell, & LEGALY CC guns. The big difference (in my view) is that the other ( "harder") drugs are legal federally by a prescription. Can/should existing laws actually be enforced ? (as always YES!) & crackdowns on md's giving out MJ cards to dubious persons? (as well as opiod rx's) ABSOLUTELY! SHOULD the Govt recognize MJ as a legitimate medicine? (just like the many others?) IMO the blame/burden should not be on the sick that can benefit by it, while big Pharma or criminals make $ off it. Should some poor soul with serious health issues be denied (by healthy politicians) a theraputic substance, or be penalized for it when it is prescribed by an Md just like vicodin, fentanyl, oxy's??? NO, NOT IN MY BOOK.
Next time you light up a joint.....
...be ready for the G-Men to be coming in your windows and doors.
...be ready for the G-Men to be coming in your windows and doors.
eveled
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He didn't have it legally in Colorado, it is against Federal law. Colorado is in the U.S.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
I live in Pueblo, Colorado, a city of about 100,000 residents. I am a retired cop, and just about everyone I interact with on a daily basis knows I am. I regularly see people smoking dope while driving. At least once per week someone offers me a hit from a pipe or a joint. I regularly smell marijuana smoke in public rest rooms and other places around town. People I have known and trusted for decades talk freely about their MJ use, medical applications, whatever, all the time.
I have never used illegal drugs. I have no use for dope or dopers. But it would not surprise me if I tested positive (urine or hair follicles) just because it is so common around here. No way to avoid it unless you just don't go out in public areas.
Smoking tobacco has been outlawed in public places for the past 13 years or so, and lighting up a Marlboro in a restaurant or bar could get you (and the property owner) a fine of $300 or more. But smoking a joint in a public place would rate a $100 fine at the most, and nobody is going to rush out in response to any complaints. A private club in which I am a member has posted prominent signs "NO MARIJUANA" at all entrances and in the restrooms, but everyone understands that to mean that you have to bring your own dope, we just don't offer it for sale.
Ten years after the "medical marijuana" fiasco (5 minute interview by a minimum wage temporary employee followed by a licensed physician signing off on your "chronic pain" BS, gimme a hundred bucks), now about 3 years into the "recreational marijuana" nonsense. Any day now I expect new laws to protect "law-abiding potheads" from harassment by anyone who complains about their public behavior.
I really want to move back to America. If anyone hears any rumors about where they hid my country please let me know. And save some boxes for me so I can take all my stuff with me when I go.
I have never used illegal drugs. I have no use for dope or dopers. But it would not surprise me if I tested positive (urine or hair follicles) just because it is so common around here. No way to avoid it unless you just don't go out in public areas.
Smoking tobacco has been outlawed in public places for the past 13 years or so, and lighting up a Marlboro in a restaurant or bar could get you (and the property owner) a fine of $300 or more. But smoking a joint in a public place would rate a $100 fine at the most, and nobody is going to rush out in response to any complaints. A private club in which I am a member has posted prominent signs "NO MARIJUANA" at all entrances and in the restrooms, but everyone understands that to mean that you have to bring your own dope, we just don't offer it for sale.
Ten years after the "medical marijuana" fiasco (5 minute interview by a minimum wage temporary employee followed by a licensed physician signing off on your "chronic pain" BS, gimme a hundred bucks), now about 3 years into the "recreational marijuana" nonsense. Any day now I expect new laws to protect "law-abiding potheads" from harassment by anyone who complains about their public behavior.
I really want to move back to America. If anyone hears any rumors about where they hid my country please let me know. And save some boxes for me so I can take all my stuff with me when I go.
I have no idea how to begin to interpret the below. I think the only thing I can offer is that people with legal prescriptions for controlled substances who are not addicted to same are legally allowed to purchase and possess firearms. There is no prescription for medical marijuana that is recognized as legal by the federal government . . .
"Other" means that the depressant or stimulant must be a controlled substance. "or any depressant, stimulant or naroctic drug, or any "other" controlled substance, inferring that all of the previous mentions in the sentence are controlled substances. Alcohol is not a controlled substance, a fact which you have ignored once. You are arguing well settled law. Alcohol don't count . . .
I agree. Marijuana is mentally addicting, not physically addicting. It's a cognitive behavior issue for addictive personalities. The law does not distinguish between various types of addiction. It does, however distinguish between controlled substances and everything else. Marijuana is the former, alcohol the latter . . .
We just found out by chance that MJ is legal in Nevada for recreational use. We just got back from a trip to Vegas and stayed at Ceasar's Palace (one of the items on my bucket list was to go see the fountains that Evel Knievel made famous). Walking through the Casino on the way to the front desk to check in at midnight was when we first smelled it. Caught whiffs of it throughout our stay there and saw a lot of people standing around smoking it on the streets and a few places in casinos and other places. Parking garage at Ceasar's was a popular place. I finally googled it and found out the legality. At first I figured, hey it's Vegas, and a lot of people party. Mrs. tlawler hates the smell of it and was constantly complaining. I don't think it's as bad as cigarette smoke smell, but that's just me. One place I didn't smell it was at the gun show, but I did see a fair amount of people that looked like they had gotten stoned before going out shopping for guns.
I hope in the next life I can come back and have a rock solid Aristotelian analysis of such issues. If only I could get on the "Law is the law" no questions necessary wagon, I could save hours of discussion. Unless the Commandante orders me to gas the prisoners that is. Joe7
We were traveling in Maine (I think) and saw a sign for Maine's best Weed Botique Or something like that. Stopped for gas shortly after and asked about it. Guy said medical had been legal for a while and recreational started in Feb.?
We talked a minute and he said something like, "Honestly, there's worse things."
My reply was "Yeah, and those worse things have to start somewhere."
Which reminds me.
We talked a minute and he said something like, "Honestly, there's worse things."
My reply was "Yeah, and those worse things have to start somewhere."
Which reminds me.
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That's quite an assumption. COMPLIANT people have to make a choice.
Watchdog
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Does that mean you no longer trust those people you've known for decades, and/or have severed ties with them?
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, so I'll offer mine.
Medical marijuana is anything but a fiasco. There's also nothing wrong with being a minimum wage employee, either...temporary or otherwise. Someone has to do the interviews and paperwork. Asking a bunch of pro forma questions and entering the applicant's information into a database doesn't require a lot of brain power. It ain't rocket science.
I'll add that chronic pain is anything but B.S. Medical marijuana and its derivatives have helped thousands (millions?) of cancer patients endure the pain and nausea associated with chemo and radiation. It's used by people with glaucoma. Little children who suffer from hundreds of seizures a day have had those seizures reduced in number or entirely eliminated because of treatment using chemicals obtained from marijuana. All of this has been medically documented time and time again. Would you deny them that treatment, that relief from pain and fear?
If medical marijuana was available in my state, if using some sort of marijuana-based product would relieve my chronic back pain instead of having to take a potentially addictive opioid med, I'd be on that stuff like a duck on a junebug.
B.S.? No, sir.
Whitwabit
US Veteran
In Illinois you can have both a Conceal Carry License and a Medical Marijuana Card !!!
BLACKHAWKNJ
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I note the irony where tobacco smoking has gone from chic and "in" to stigmatized and legally restricted-in my town the large plaza in from the library is a legally mandated no smoking area, people who quit smoking-like people who decide to quit drinking-are hailed as heroes. And I know of no cases of traffic accidents caused by people "under the influence" of tobacco.
Form 4473 asks if you are addicted, a yes means no purchase. A new State law legalizing MJ in your area would prevent you from buying a new firearm if you are a user, not from using the ones you legally bought previously.
However I have never known anyone that used it once and dropped it. Several that have used it occasionally and moved on but really doubt the TV show premise that an LEO wanted to use Marijuana so bad he tried it once when travelling.
Until something changes, I believe that 4473 is a permission to purchase with an implied not stated condition of ownership.
However I have never known anyone that used it once and dropped it. Several that have used it occasionally and moved on but really doubt the TV show premise that an LEO wanted to use Marijuana so bad he tried it once when travelling.
Until something changes, I believe that 4473 is a permission to purchase with an implied not stated condition of ownership.
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Watchdog
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It's stigmatized and legally restricted because it's a known and well documented health hazard.
And really, it simply isn't cool any more. Try to imagine (for instance) a cow or a horse, breathing in smoke from burning hay, then exhaling it in a noxious cloud. That's what I think of when I see someone sucking on a cigarette.
I remember when I'd go out to dinner at a nice restaurant. There might be a hundred diners present, with forty or fifty of them smoking, just puffing away. Where I worked, there'd be a cloud of grey cigarette smoke hanging over the work areas. It looked like smog. This was in a federal building, too. They furnished workers with these little clip-on metal ash trays, and cigs would sit there just smoldering. Ever smell cigarette filters burning in a confined office space?
I don't know about "heroes", but as a former smoker, I can say that there's definitely a sense of pride and self-worth in having kicked the habit cold turkey. Plus the added advantage of knowing I don't reek of tobacco smoke. No one is gonna smell me coming.
I live in a large city. There are now more places where smoking is prohibited than where it's allowed. No smoking is allowed in federal, city, or county office buildings. No smoking in hospitals and other medical facilities, no smoking in stores, restaurants, and bars. I could go on, but that's the point. Times have changed. Lots of cars no longer come with cigarette lighters and ashtrays.
There are not hundreds or thousands of stoners here puffing on weed day in day out in public places. Seriously, there aren't. I might catch a whiff now and then, and if I waste enough time looking around trying to spot the culprit, I usually find them. But why bother?
Cleared everything up nicely . Joe
oneounceload
Member
If you think that the Feds (and any other group) can't get your medical records, you are mistaken. HIPAA is a joke.........so get that pot card and you get denied going forward (and maybe they knock on your door for your guns you already have)
DeathGrip
US Veteran
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Don't need a pot card. I'm in Colorado, all I need is money.
To repeat a clarification posted above, MJ is not legal in Nevada for recreational use. It may not be against Nevada law, but it is still against federal law, even in Nevada.
LVSteve
Member
The real fun will start when somebody from the DEA marches into a state capitol where MJ has been "legalized" and presents a warrant to seize the resulting tax revenue as proceeds from an illegal enterprise. I'm off to buy stock in popcorn even though I can't stand the stuff.
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