The Importance of Follow Through!!!

[54ball]

A Florida man was killed by woman who with a group, kidnapped him, and his girlfriend, then attempted to rob them in an Alabama State Park.

The couple from Florida were hiking at Alabama's Mount Chehaw State Park. After their hike they were flagged by two women claiming, "car trouble". The couple try to render aid, even trying to troubleshoot the group's vehicle via online.
When the man stated to the women, "That's all I can do." One of the women pulled a gun, demanded their cell phones and marched them at gun point up a hiking trail.

"When she (the suspect) dropped her guard for a second, and lowered her gun for a second, he pulled out his gun and told her to get on the ground,'' Paulus said. "She started messing with her gun and it was jamming but they shot at each other."

"She was shot three times and he was shot once. Her femur was shattered so she couldn't get away,'' she said.

The mistake that cost this man (a concealed carrier) his life was trying to warn the armed woman. He may also have tried for non-lethal shots.
In this particular circumstance, eliminating the armed threat by lethal force should have been the choice in my opinion.

The women and others were living in a makeshift tent-city compound a few yards off the trail.

MSN

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Absolutely terrible.

 

[54ball]

Absolutely terrible.

Yes sir!
I did not want to post this. It's really hard for me to process. I posted this so maybe someone else can learn from it.

1. Do not render aid in rural isolated areas. In a case like this the couple should have drove by and contacted the rangers.
The stranded motorist has become a common trick of robbers even in populated areas.

2. Assume that you are going to be killed. Thats why they were led into the woods.

3. Apparently, he had the drop on her after he drew his concealed firearm. He gave up his advantage when he ordered her to get on the ground.

4. As said, it's possible he tried for non-lethal shots. He hit her 3 times; she hit him once, killing him nearly instantly.

 

[Echo40]

Some folks just aren't willing to shoot someone dead on the spot without even giving them the opportunity to surrender or retreat, specifically those with strong moral convictions or religious obligations.

Besides, thinking that you would or could just blow somebody away without a second thought in self-defense and actually being able to do so without hesitation are two completely different things.

 

[Greyman50]

Horrible event. As for shoot to kill, I as well as many others that have " seen the elephant" know its them or you. Crime situation today is unbelievable, I can imagine what my Dad and Grandfathers would say..

 

[John Patrick]

If you are forced to use lethal force, and you're justified using lethal force, use lethal force.

 

[54ball]

Some folks just aren't willing to shoot someone dead on the spot without even giving them the opportunity to surrender or retreat, specifically those with strong moral convictions or religious obligations.

Besides, thinking that you would or could just blow somebody away without a second thought in self-defense and actually being able to do so without hesitation are two completely different things.

There is no greater love than one who lays down his life for his friends.
The man laid down his life for his fiancé and to a point, even his murderer. She will face charges.

His fiancé escaped unharmed.

Likely that woman would have killed both of them, that probability in my opinion is certain. That's why she was leading them further in the woods. Her not surrendering or running, is proof of that.

It's sad all the way around. Maybe we can learn from it.

As far as "blowing somebody away". If you are being led to a perfect execution spot, assume that you are going to be "Blown Away."

The 50/50 rules concerning abduction

Consider this even if unarmed.

If you go with the abductor, your chances of survival are pretty much nil....
If you run, you have a 50/50 chance that they will shoot.
If they do shoot, you have a 50/50 chance of being hit.
If you are hit, you have a 50/50 chance of being hit in a vital area.
If you are hit in a vital area, you have a 50/50 chance of dying.
Again, going with the abductor significantly reduces the chance of survival.

Him having a CCW increased his chances and did indeed save his girlfriend.

 

[54ball]

Horrible event. As for shoot to kill, I as well as many others that have " seen the elephant" know its them or you. Crime situation today is unbelievable, I can imagine what my Dad and Grandfathers would say..

My family was on those same roads a few years ago. It's just hard to imagine.
As far as roadside aid...
Don't stop...call the cops. Rural Alabama is not the Sahara.

 

[fatcat3]

No good deed goes unpunished. It truly troubles my heart, but my days of rendering aid or picking up hitchhikers has gone by the wayside years ago.

 

[sotexas]

Drawing only, pointing at person, shooting and missing, shooting and wounding, and shooting with termination are all considered use of deadly force in most states. Draw to terminate

 

[Mark8]

Some folks just aren't willing to shoot someone dead on the spot without even giving them the opportunity to surrender or retreat, specifically those with strong moral convictions or religious obligations.

Besides, thinking that you would or could just blow somebody away without a second thought in self-defense and actually being able to do so without hesitation are two completely different things.

Those are very good points. However, when someone points a loaded firearm at you, that person loses a lot of rights in my opinion.

 

[Beemerguy53]

...thinking that you would or could just blow somebody away without a second thought in self-defense and actually being able to do so without hesitation are two completely different things...

Taking someone's life is a very serious matter, even if you are totally justified in doing so.

I know a retired Baltimore police officer who, in his almost 30 year career, killed two suspects in gunfights. He told me once that he never, ever wants to have to shoot somebody again...

 

[venomballistics]

I had always trained for the Mozambique drill immediately upon presentation.
I've flip flopped a bit on this over the years as a discussion topic. I won't be able to break it free from my training however.
This case makes an argument for the practice.
His apparent emphasis on sparing his adversary left the wrong contender to live on

 

[686-380]

I have a point of no return planned, do you?

Some folks just aren't willing to shoot someone dead on the spot without even giving them the opportunity to surrender or retreat, specifically those with strong moral convictions or religious obligations.

Besides, thinking that you would or could just blow somebody away without a second thought in self-defense and actually being able to do so without hesitation are two completely different things.

I consider myself strongly morally centered. That said, I have already considered points of no return. The closer someone is physically, the shorter the "trigger pull". When people attempt to get in my space, it immediately sets up defenses. I am petrified of getting stabbed.

Naturally, the circumstances drive my responses and I can only relate what I plan...not for what actually happens.

 

[Marshal Tom]

Extremely unfortunate outcome. Many CCW carriers and some cops that I have known and trained over the years have never come to grips with the possibility that they may have to shoot someone, take a life or be shot themselves. We have offered scenarios to students in the classroom portion of the classes, asking if in this or that case, what would they do.Sometimes the answers are such that it is clear that they have never really considered those possibilities.
There have been so many recent cases of good samaritans stopping to render aid and becoming victims that it is clear that the better coarse of action is to call the police and not stop.