The "Lay down and die syndrome"

[Don 73]

Reposted from another thread ...

The 'lay down and die' syndrome ... people get it from watching too much TV and movies where if you get shot, no matter where (including an arm or leg), you fall down and die.

Just three days ago I responded to a double shooting. One guy took one in the abdomen that perforated his liver, the other guy took one in the lower right chest that affected his lung & breathing ability, yet BOTH of them were able to run 50 yards to safety AND were awake and (relatively) mobile when the medics got there. If either one of them would have been armed, they DEFINATELY would have been able to fight back.

When I was shot back in 1993, I remember thinking about a cop who had been shot in the thigh and was still able to walk downstairs and call for help for himself (ND from his own gun, BTW, so was mine lol) and when my grandfather sprained his knee hunting in the woods and walked out to camp, and I thought to myself: "If THEY can do it, so can I." and I walked upstairs to the kitchen where I waited for the squad.

Just because you're hit doesn't mean game over ... it's just starting.

 

[JPriest]

There is definitely something to this. I had a chance to speak with a major in the Russian special police service and he told me he had seen people survive horrific wounds that no doctor would say a person could live through and he had also seen very stong, physically fit people die from very minor wounds that no one could explain how they died from them. There is something so be said for cultivating determination and inner strength.

 

[shouldazagged]

Same with scenes of people being shot by archers in battle. One arrow in the torso and they drop dead without a twitch.

Ever trailed an arrow-shot deer?

Years ago I knew a woman who attempted suicide by shooting herself in the chest with a .30-30. Had an ungodly huge exit wound and lots of tissue torn all to hell. She kept asking the docs who examined her before taking her to surgery, "Why did I do this? WHY?" She died on the operating table, hours after she fired the shot. She wasn't a large woman, she was well into middle age, and she wanted to die when she pressed the trigger.

Never underestimate anyone, and never assume. Humans can be astonishingly tough.

 

[Old cop]

A close friend was shot w/a .45 LC in the chest, just above his badge (I took out the bad guy in the insuing gun battle, no body armor then) and he went down like a ton of bricks. He was a big guy, young, in good shape, and told me he felt like he got hit in the chest with a telephone pole. He worked through to normal retirement but passed away two years ago from this wound, inflicted in the early '70's.

I've seen more who walk around after being shot then those who drop so you never know.

 

[Maze 686]

Great topic, I've seen plenty over the years and some people would be amazed at what a true fighting mindset can do.

 

[sophie]

This is a good topic and makes a very good point. There are many people who have been shot as mentioned above and still do what is necessary to get help if possible and don't just lay down and roll over. Everything you see on the TV shows is BS for the most part.

The general public is led to believe just because you fire a gun at a car it will automatically explode. Well why not? That is the way they show it on TV.

 

[S&W45Colt]

I know a guy, he's a monster, 6'5" 260 lbs of muscle, his Ex walked up on him at his desk and emptied a .25acp into his torso. He got up, knocked her cold and went up to the office (he's a teacher, Ex-college football player) and sat in the office to the EMS came for him and the Sheriff's Dept for her.

He was out of the hospital and said he was good to go in less than a week.

 

[Maze 686]

I have a tattoo on my left arm given to me by a famous Tattoo Artist.

Alf Diamond, he was well known in Europe not only for his tattoos, but while with the French Foreign Legion in Vietnam. He survived being shot 11 times during one battle and killing alot of enemy.

 

[Ransom]

The best counter-example ever. This guy refuses to lay down and die! Black Knight - YouTube

 

[sac-gunslinger]

Everything you see on the TV shows is BS for the most part.

Amen to that. In the many years I have been working I have worked as an aircraft mechanic (still maintain my licenses), have worked the streets in uniform and been an instructor, have sold firearms, have worked around railroads, am an now an IT professional and am a college professor. I am sharing this not to brag but to set the stage to comment on television. When I look at how my various professions are represented in "entertainment" I see BS. Pure, unadulterated BS. My wife is always telling me I am too picky, that I should just enjoy the story. I cannot when the producers expect me to suspend the laws of physics and logic.

When I was instructing folks in uniform and when I was selling firearms, I had to fight "television perceptions" continuously. Somebody not understanding how an aircraft really works does not adversely affect his or her ability to fly in a plane but not understanding how guns work, or how confrontations evolve, will have a direct impact on him or her surviving a confrontation.

Please excuse me being a little long-winded but this is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[feralmerril]

I met a nut once that insisted in showing me 10 or 11 old healed bullet wounds in his body! The guy was a huge half baked muscled up hells angel type. A vietnam vet I knew was shot through the head, bullet went out a eye! He worked where I did. I have two cousins that were shot. One was grazed along the side of his head with a high powered rifle, and the other was bird hunting and hit in the face. A couple pellets went into his brain! Both are alive.

 

[shouldazagged]

I know a guy who is walking around with a .38 slug in his brain, well over thirty years after he was shot. And I had a next-door neighbor who killed himself with a .22 short to the temple.

Never assume.

 

[Murdock]

Statistics support not giving up. About 80% of people shot with handguns survive.

References: Tiger McKee, The Book of Two Guns, and a video lecture on emergency room gunshot management by Dr. Andreas Grabinsky on YouTube.com

 

[forrestinmathews]

In one of his books, Jim Cirillo talks about a felon shot 11 times in the face with .38's from a Det special and j frame. None on the bullets penetrated the skull. He got up and sneezed a bullet out of his nose. They had all skidded around the skull.

Nothing is over until it's over; no threat is truly neutralized until they are downed, disarmed and secured. As it's not really a great legal option to disarm and secure from a civilian standpoint, putting them down as hard as possible is the only safe play. I motion to go home in one piece. Second?

 

[Murdock]

Seconded. Shoot 'em to the ground.

 

[NCIC105]

Sheep lay down to die!

 

[shouldazagged]

Sheep lay down to die!

People also lie down to die, eventually. The key word is "eventually".

 

[Connman67]

People also lie down to die, eventually. The key word is "eventually".

Not all, so, i would say, when / if you ever have to take someone out in self defense. Do not turn your back, they may look dead but might stand up when your are not looking and run or worse... shoot you.

 

[hotrod150]

I am reading "Principals of Personal Defense" by Jeff Cooper. This is a small paperback, 77 pages long, which to my surprise does not include any shooting or gun stuff to speak of. What it does address is the mindset necesary to survive and prevail. Cooper cites seven principals:
alertness, decisiveness, aggressiveness, speed, coolness, ruthlessness, and surprise. What he should have included but left unsaid is perseverance-- never quit fighting!

 

[shouldazagged]

Not all, so, i would say, when / if you ever have to take someone out in self defense. Do not turn your back, they may look dead but might stand up when your are not looking and run or worse... shoot you.

That was my point. You can't ever be sure. "Eventually" could be years.