the LIGHTEST weight most easily concealed pocket pistol
- Thread starter Samsonxd
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Pitdog02
Member
Several hundred? Yeah let me know if you have 6+ thousand 158grn .357 out of a 340 pd, a burned up eroded cylinder and the scars on your face to match. Since I changed over to stainless the number of factory brand ammo I can use without issue has increased,so the 2 ounces makes a difference. I now have a little over 3000 rds 158grn .357 downrange from my 360 and 340 SS. So internet garbage? yes, where its coming from here you be the judge. I would like to hear documented evidence as to why a guy that admits he never has even held one of these revolvers should chose titanium over stainless. If he buys used he does not know what the last owner cleaned/shot with, then there is the chance he might shoot 110grn by mistake and damage that hardy titanium. So the POTENTIAL for problems with the titanium outweigh the 2oz benefit. IMHO, YMMV.
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qballwill
Member
My choice for pocket carry is my 342ti with old school factory grips. cant beat the weight!!!!
Stainz
Member
My current Magnum pocket lite weight is my relatively new 351PD. Okay, it's 'just' a .22 WMR... but it weighs only 11.5 oz loaded with seven 45gr Hornady FTX 'Critical Defense' rounds. It also fits my spare Mika's 642 pocket holster and carries much more effortlessly in my rf pocket than my 642 stoked with +P 158gr LHPSWCs. Yeah, I know they are better man-stoppers than the .22 WMR, but my theory is that if the .22 WMR's bark doesn't deafen and disorient an assailant, it's flash should scare him. In any case, he would likely notice the recently installed seven exsanguination ports.
The really great news re the 351PD and that ammo - or CCI MaxiMag 40gr TMJ - is that, despite the necessarily miserable DA pull, follow-ups are fast and furious! I have an ANIB, bought 11/11, 4" 651 and I believe - all things being considered - it, resprung and slicked rebound slide, etc, has about the same DA-pull as my 351PD quickly broke in to have. The 351PD 'feels' harder due to the lighter weight. I can hit a paper dinner plate 7/7 times with it from 3-7yd after retrieving it from my pocket and firing rapidly - the 351PD should be effective. I'll still carry my 642 quite often - and it's predecessor, my 296 - some, too.
I've shot a 340 with hot CorBon .357Ms - ouch. It, and a similar 360, were range friend's firearms. No thank you! Follow ups? Eeek! Misery - pure misery. If I am as vocal upon the first shot in an emergency as I was the first time I shot the AirLite Ti .357M, my loud expletives would give away my position and likely result in my having my mouth washed out with soap. I'll stick with what I have... and very likely, start carrying that 351PD more!
Stainz
The really great news re the 351PD and that ammo - or CCI MaxiMag 40gr TMJ - is that, despite the necessarily miserable DA pull, follow-ups are fast and furious! I have an ANIB, bought 11/11, 4" 651 and I believe - all things being considered - it, resprung and slicked rebound slide, etc, has about the same DA-pull as my 351PD quickly broke in to have. The 351PD 'feels' harder due to the lighter weight. I can hit a paper dinner plate 7/7 times with it from 3-7yd after retrieving it from my pocket and firing rapidly - the 351PD should be effective. I'll still carry my 642 quite often - and it's predecessor, my 296 - some, too.
I've shot a 340 with hot CorBon .357Ms - ouch. It, and a similar 360, were range friend's firearms. No thank you! Follow ups? Eeek! Misery - pure misery. If I am as vocal upon the first shot in an emergency as I was the first time I shot the AirLite Ti .357M, my loud expletives would give away my position and likely result in my having my mouth washed out with soap. I'll stick with what I have... and very likely, start carrying that 351PD more!
Stainz
buck460XVR
Member
The airweight J-Frames, hands down.
Realzebub45
Member
Well.... I've tried many of the guns mentioned. It all comes down to how you want to compromise and in what direction.
Ideal for CC is the perfect combination of size, weight, capacity and power. Problem is perfection doesn't exist. The Shield your wife absconded with is about as close as it gets in either 40 or 9mm. Another option with dimensions almost identical to the Shield but with more power is the Springfield XDs in 45 ACP (the Shield weighs 19oz, the XDs about an ounce and a half more). The problem today is they are equally difficult to find but worth the wait...
If your butt is ever on the line you'll be glad you didn't settle for less either in quality or caliber...
Just sayin'......
Ah, isn't it an X"D"s? Just axin'...
Leadchop54
Member
A j frame is a must have in anyone's collection! I recently picked up a 360j. It's a 38spl only built on the same scandium frame as the 360pd/360m&p. it's much cheaper than its 357 brothers! And if you don't feel the 38spl is enough, have pinnacle high performance machine the cylinder for 9mm(waiting for mine to return!!) You get close to the same power as the 357 but without the massive blast of the 357!!(shooting 357 out of these is NOT FUN!!!) And after the price o the gun and machining, you still come out cheaper than the 360pd/m&p!!
I carry a 340PD and I like heavy bullets. Since I've never shot a 357 load less than 158 grains, there's no risk of flashing the titanium cylinder. I shoot my other guns a lot, but not the 340PD or the 329PD.
If you are thinking of shooting the pistol a lot, then the Scandium/Titanium or Scandium/Stainless pistols are not the longest-lived. I think that's true in general of any super-lightweight pistol. If you shoot a lot of the wrong loads even in a stainless cylinder scandium frame you will have to send it back to S&W periodically to get the stainless blast shield replaced.
The 340PDs are great carry guns, and I think the 2 oz does make a difference.
If you are thinking of shooting the pistol a lot, then the Scandium/Titanium or Scandium/Stainless pistols are not the longest-lived. I think that's true in general of any super-lightweight pistol. If you shoot a lot of the wrong loads even in a stainless cylinder scandium frame you will have to send it back to S&W periodically to get the stainless blast shield replaced.
The 340PDs are great carry guns, and I think the 2 oz does make a difference.
smokey04
Member
stainz, although I don't advocate a .22 Mag. as a primary carry piece,I will say,in an earlier life I used a .22 Mag derringer to cancel my one way ticket to North Viet Nam. If you are cool under stress and can place an accurate shot, a .22 Mag can be deadly.In my case,luckily,I hit him in the right eye and it made a 3"[approx] exit wound out the back of his skull. IIRC these were 40 gr. WW half jacket hollow points. Either way a .22 Mag,well placed, sure beats a sharp stick. Nick
Ah, isn't it an X"D"s? Just axin'...
OOPs!! Thanks for catching the TYPO. It will be corrected on future posts....
sqhead
US Veteran
yee-ouch..that had to hurt!!......i just picked up a 351pd and i have no qualms about carrying it.i like the 7 rounds and hitting the target on the follow up shots w/ no problems...i also rotate in a 431 32 magnum........6 shots and also easy to shoot. ..have a 337 38 i like as well...it all depends on what you like,can handle,and what conditions ur carrying in..ur attire as well will dictate what you carry.
LimaCharlie
US Veteran
There is a good comparison chart of mouse guns at:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B22wLsyYEkTOMDU4MjJlNTktOTRlZi00NTJkLWE0MGMtZmEwNGFlMWE3ZDlm/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B22wLsyYEkTOMDU4MjJlNTktOTRlZi00NTJkLWE0MGMtZmEwNGFlMWE3ZDlm/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1
Jayhawkhuntclub
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Quite a few pocket pistols that are smaller than the Shield or the J frame. A bunch of 380s (non-Keltec) that would meet the description. It all depends on what you are willing to sacrifice. Is 380 too small? If you want something with the power of a 9 that is smaller, then the Kahr is probably the way to go.
BTW, the 9 does NOT have twice the power of the 38, even according to the linked article. The 9 does have more power, but it's not twice. Regardless, the 38 is fine (if you know how to shoot).
BTW, the 9 does NOT have twice the power of the 38, even according to the linked article. The 9 does have more power, but it's not twice. Regardless, the 38 is fine (if you know how to shoot).
If you went solely by thread title... a NAA revolver would have to be one of the lightest and most easily concealable guns around... (I'd personally like to pick up a PUG)
But I have to agree with Stainz.. Never underestimate the power of 22 WMR. While it's usually shunned as being too 'small' for self defense / CCW.... I've seen the terminal effect of this cartridge in law enforcement and one can not argue with the results. Just about every case I've ever seen involving a 22 WMR was a fatality.
I have a 340PD and while it's powerful, it's quite painful to shoot. If I can find a new 351PD, I will probably replace it as my new carry gun. Granted you really cant go wrong with any J frame in my opinion.
Just remember... When you are talking about the possibility of using deadly force nothing is a replacement for shot placement, regardless of what caliber you use.
But I have to agree with Stainz.. Never underestimate the power of 22 WMR. While it's usually shunned as being too 'small' for self defense / CCW.... I've seen the terminal effect of this cartridge in law enforcement and one can not argue with the results. Just about every case I've ever seen involving a 22 WMR was a fatality.
I have a 340PD and while it's powerful, it's quite painful to shoot. If I can find a new 351PD, I will probably replace it as my new carry gun. Granted you really cant go wrong with any J frame in my opinion.
Just remember... When you are talking about the possibility of using deadly force nothing is a replacement for shot placement, regardless of what caliber you use.
Delos
Member
Wrong but good try
It looks like you are comparing a 5 inch 9mm with a 2 inch stubby 38 special.
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .38 Special Results
By the way, when I was young the police all carried 6 inch barrels, except the detectives. In 158 grain the penetration is very good. Longer heavier bullets penetrate better.
No one would have dreamed of carrying a 9 mm until hollow point bullets and high capacity magazines became available.
In the 9mm the round nose jacketed was the only thing available. Good for punching little holes that stretched out and closed back up.
In the 38 special the reliability and flat semi wadcutters were nice. Lead bullets go down the barrel a little faster than jacketed, in any particular caliber. They also reload nice.
There was no such thing as +P 38 specials back in the 1950's. All S&W revolvers were made of steel, and all the old loads would be called +P today, if memory serves.
In other words, back then, everyone sooner or later compared them. But the jacketed round nose 9mm geneva conventions military bullet was not a good man stopper.
I would be willing to bet that most off duty police still carry stubby revolvers. I might be wrong?
You might notice in reloading books the powder in the shells is about the same, or slightly more in +P 38 special.
The powder does the work.
The Kabooms and interesting jams just do not happen in revolvers. But the semi-autos are getting better. Some semi autos still have a hammer that you can cock for better shooting. Back in the day there was no good triggers on single action auto's. Even today the semi autos have hammers that are awkward to cock.
I shoot better with stubbies than little semi-autos. As pocket guns they have no equal. Show me a semi-auto you can shoot from inside a jacket pocket in an emergency.
It looks like you are comparing a 5 inch 9mm with a 2 inch stubby 38 special.
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .38 Special Results
By the way, when I was young the police all carried 6 inch barrels, except the detectives. In 158 grain the penetration is very good. Longer heavier bullets penetrate better.
No one would have dreamed of carrying a 9 mm until hollow point bullets and high capacity magazines became available.
In the 9mm the round nose jacketed was the only thing available. Good for punching little holes that stretched out and closed back up.
In the 38 special the reliability and flat semi wadcutters were nice. Lead bullets go down the barrel a little faster than jacketed, in any particular caliber. They also reload nice.
There was no such thing as +P 38 specials back in the 1950's. All S&W revolvers were made of steel, and all the old loads would be called +P today, if memory serves.
In other words, back then, everyone sooner or later compared them. But the jacketed round nose 9mm geneva conventions military bullet was not a good man stopper.
I would be willing to bet that most off duty police still carry stubby revolvers. I might be wrong?
You might notice in reloading books the powder in the shells is about the same, or slightly more in +P 38 special.
The powder does the work.
The Kabooms and interesting jams just do not happen in revolvers. But the semi-autos are getting better. Some semi autos still have a hammer that you can cock for better shooting. Back in the day there was no good triggers on single action auto's. Even today the semi autos have hammers that are awkward to cock.
I shoot better with stubbies than little semi-autos. As pocket guns they have no equal. Show me a semi-auto you can shoot from inside a jacket pocket in an emergency.
luangtom
US Veteran
The 340PD is a great pocket-revolver. I carry mine in a DeSantis Nemesis and have no complaints at all. I did change the red-ramp to a XS regular-dot night-sight.
The old Colt Cobra gives you light weight and six shots. In a two inch barrel, +P and magnum loads don't matter that much to me. I know I'd lose the ballistics argument. In a semi-auto, if you want something that hits like "The hammer of Thor," the Kahr PM45 is a pretty potent package with five in the mag and one in the chamber. Nothing beats a heavy, fat, slow .45acp for stopping power. Good luck.
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A .38 SPL produces about 200 ft-lb muzzle energy from a 6" barrel, compared to 9x19mm, which produces approximately 400 ft-lb from a 4" barrel. .40 S&W and .45 ACP are in the same ball park as 9 mm.
Plain vanilla .38 SPL packs a real wallop of recoil in a 15 oz revolver because there's no action to spread out the momentum. The recoil of a pistol is spread out over about 1/10 second as the slide flies back, which reduces the felt recoil significantly.
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