"the load"

[shovelwrench]

In reference to the "LOAD"

In most modern guns I tend to start load development near max. Researching what max is through different manuals and online research.

I just got the Speers #8 first printing (came with 70 and 71 speer bullet chart too!!).

So the problem is, I have a 940 that I recently fitted a .38 cylinder for. That means, .358 bullets through a .356 bore, not all that uncommon, but brings up certain issues.

Obviously the issues are with pressures from handloads nearing max loads.

Since I will be using lead for .38 loadings, and 9mm jacketed in .38 brass for hotter stuff, and my lead loadings will be plenty conservative enough for the bore difference, my only issue is "the load".

So my questions...

Does any one have accurate, modern pressure data for the load?
Is the load considered +P?
Because I don't know what my .38 cyl came from, will it be safe for higher pressure loads (and its moonclipped)?

Lastly, is the standard 10% drop from max a safe start, or should I drop further?

 

[Landric]

I would assume you are referring to Keith's 173 grain LSWC with ~ 13 grains of 2400 in .38 Special brass. I don't have any pressure data on it, but its a magnum class load, and safe to assume it develops pressures in that range. I recently chronographed the 173 grain Keith SWC, 13 grains of 2400, Federal SP primer, CBC Brass (Magtech) out of a 2 1/4" SP101 and a 4" 681-3. The average was 1096 fps out of the SP and 1201 fps out of the 681. That is way over the performance level of any .38 Special +P, even Buffalo Bore's.

Obviously you may do what you like, but I wouldn't shoot that ammunition in a .38 Special/9mm J-frame, steel or otherwise, especially one with an undersize bore. I was getting slightly sticky extraction with 13 grains, so in the future I'm going to tone it down a little.

 

[shovelwrench]

Thanks for the reply.

I was actually referring to the heavy 4756 loads behind a 158LSWC.

 

[Skip Sackett]

No no no!

"THE LOAD" as officially titled by our own NKJ_NUT, is NOT Keith's load.

It is shorthand for one load and only that load. What is that load? It is the starting load for a 158gr LSWC from the Speer #8 manual with SR4756 powder, PERIOD.

Are there other loads that are heavy and all of that? Sure. If you want to load "THE LOAD" though, you have to use the data as described above.

There are conflicting reports as to what the pressure is from this load. It was tested by several folks, I'm not one of them.

One had it tested by White and came back at catastrophic pressures. The other was tested through favors at other laboratories by reputable folks. Problem being is that that data can't be shared since it was done on the "Q. T." Suffice it to say though, it was much less than catastrophic in it's pressure range. +P? Sure, above that. Bottom line 357Mag I would say, but nothing more.

For me though, "THE LOAD" is only going to get shot in all steel firearms designed for 38spl +P or 357Mag.

I have shot it in a M14 with 6" barrel with no ill affects, just didn't shoot much of them. I also shot it in a M60 with a 3" barrel, again, not many of them. Mostly though, I have shot it out of either an "N" or "L" frame.

Personally, that's all I would shoot it out of on a regular basis. That's just me though.

I can tell you this though. I sure wouldn't shoot it out of a customized firearm. That, again, is just me. Do as you want.

 

[shovelwrench]

Smith Crazy,
I'm glad your in on this one...

I was sittin at the load bench a few hours ago, contemplating. 9mm barrel, extremely hot load.... I did'nt load "the load", but, I was considering "the loads" charge behind a 147 RNFPBB lead .356 in this gun (loaded in a .38spec cartridge).

Lighter, correct diameter for 9mm, should make less pressure...

 

[shovelwrench]

OH,
I'm not lookin to shoot a pile of these, just lookin for a cylinder full every now and then. Carry ammo per se, reliable function test....cylinder full in my pocket.

 

[ChuckS1]

I played with this one quite a bit with my Outdoorsman. I started 20% below the minimum charge weight and worked up slowly. I got pressure signs (flattened and then pierced primers) by the time I got to the starting charge weight. I used Remington small pistol primers and then switched over to Winchester after the pierced primers with Remington. All in all, a good load in that N frame Outdoorsman, but I wouldn't shoot it in a K frame on a regular basis.

 

[Treeman]

As Skip said-The Load is more than +P. I actually think that not knowing the heritage of your cylinder is more relevant than your bore size. For generations Colt screwed .354 bore barrels on their 38 specials and .357 magnums. I don't know why they did it that way but the guns passed proof and shot okay. I have little doubt that it did effect pressures some.......but the guns were designed to work cramming .357 -.358 bullets down the .354 bore so it didn't really matter

 

[NKJ nut]

Smith Crazy,
I'm glad your in on this one...

I was sittin at the load bench a few hours ago, contemplating. 9mm barrel, extremely hot load.... I did'nt load "the load", but, I was considering "the loads" charge behind a 147 RNFPBB lead .356 in this gun (loaded in a .38spec cartridge).

Lighter, correct diameter for 9mm, should make less pressure...

Less pressure but not enough less.

I have worked extensively with this load and decided rather quickly that it was not for J frames. The recoil is horrendous and I am not sure the guns will handle much of it. Same for K frame .38's. The bbl. extension on these is the weak point. I saw one blow out using this load.

For me, THE LOAD will only be used in S&W revolvers based on the N frame.

But that is just my opinion, based on experience. You might shoot THE LOAD in your J frame and have an experience to relate...... Good or bad.