The M&P-10

MistWolf

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You know what separates Man from the lower animals? Power tools, baby. Big, honkin' powertools. If there is one thing the 7.62x51 has, it's plenty of power and for the AR fan, the M&P-10 is just the tool to harness and deliver that power!
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S&W's big AR comes in a hard plastic black case that is more durable than a cardboard box but flimsier than the average plastic rifle case. It works well enough transporting the rifle to and from the range and it was nice having a case to carry it out of the gunshop when I bought it. Along with the rifle was the usual paperwork, chamber flag and weapon lock.

S&W lists its weight at 7.7 lbs, the barrel at 18" barrel and length is 40.9 inches long with the stock extended and 37.6 collapsed. My PSA carbine with a 16" barrel is about 36.5 inches extended and roughly 32.75 inches collapsed. That makes the M&P-10 a good 5 inches longer than the smaller AR! (I have not weighed my 5.56 carbine, but it does feel lighter than the M&P-10.)

This version of the M&P-10 came with M4 style furniture. The buttstock has a thin, plastic buttplate and with the milder recoil of the 5.56, it’s not a problem. With the heavier recoil of the 7.62x51 however, it gouges into the flesh painfully and gets worse with each shot. The finger groove of the A2 grip is uncomfortable and I've never liked the feel of the round handguards.
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I replaced it all with full Magpul regalia and the M4 furniture has been banished to the parts bin. The MOE handguard will eventually be replace with a carbon fiber free float tube.
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Some shooters speculate if the barrel of the S&W will be able to handle the heat of the 7.62x51. S&W chose 4140 steel (the same steel used in the best FN-FAL barrels), profiling it to be thicker near the chamber and much thinner forward of the gas block and gave it a melonite coating. This should prove to be a very durable combination. 5R rifling with a 1:10 twist is used.
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Receivers are forged, a process that is stronger than machining from a billet for this application, from 7075 aluminum alloy. Armalite forges their 308 receivers from 7175 alloy and their new design uses PMags. However, the Armalite receivers are currently as rare as hen’s teeth and aren’t ambidextrous.

The M&P-10 comes with a standard AR fire control group. It’s smooth and predictable for it's type, but the more I shoot it, the more I wish it had a Geissele. Before replacing it, I’m going to take it out, grease it up and give it another go. Greasing the AR FCG smoothes it out and takes away most of the roughness. However, if my previous experience is anything to go by, I’ll be springing for a G trigger as soon the budget allows.

S&W claims the rifle weighs 7.7 lbs. Configured as below, this one showed 8.5 lbs on the scales empty and 10 lbs with a fully loaded 20 round PMag. A single, fully loaded Pmag with 20 rounds of 308 weighs a hefty pound and a half! The rifle wasn't weighed as it came from the factory, nor was it weighed after changing the handguard
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BCG is, of course larger than what’s used in a standard AR and a brief inspection showed the gas key is staked. The receiver extension is longer to accommodate the greater length and travel of the BCG which results in a longer Length of pull and there is a larger gap between the stock and the RE plate when fully collapsed. With my longer arms, I like the extra LOP and I don't have to fully extend the stock.

The rifle wasn't shot for groups. I only ran about 100 rounds of German DAG and Venezuelan CAVIM just to test it for function and get a general impression of how it shoots. An Aimpoint H1 with 4 MOA dot was mounted to the M&P-10 and shooting offhand, hits on basketball sized targets were easily achieved out to 300 yards.

Loading the factory 10 round magazine was more work than loading a 20 round Pmags. The short length of the 10 round mag makes it difficult to give it a tug after it's inserted in the magwell to make sure it's locked in. On the plus side, the mag fed smoothly and will lock into place full with the bolt forward 20 round PMags are easy to to load and lock into place topped off and with the bolt closed. So far, feeding has been 100% reliable. Since acquiring the Pmags, the 10 rounder has gone un-used.

Controlled pairs are more difficult to achieve due to the increased recoil and 7.62x51 will reveal any flaws in your stance. Shooting it back to back with a Para FAL that has a BABC, the M&P-10 has greater and harsher recoil. I think the difference is the compensator and I’ll be swapping out the long flash suppressor soon for the BABC to see if I’m right.
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The more I handle the rifle, the more I like the ambidextrous controls. Locking the bolt back without the mag is much easier to do than with standard AR and being able to hit the release from either side is nice. I'm liking the ambidextrous mag release too. The safety works well, but when flicking to FIRE when shooting left handed, the selector lever (which is longer on the left side) is blocked by the trigger finger. All the shooter has to do is move the finger a bit, but it's annoying. A shorter and maybe thinner selector lever would minimize this problem.

There is no denying the 7.62x51 is much more powerful than the 5.56x45. I had been popping a couple of rocks off and on with the smaller AR, tracking hits by the small puffs from impact. When I switched to the big AR, there was no small puff. Instead, there were chunks of pulverized stone slicing through the air, like the rock had been struck by the Hammer of Thor. Shooting the 5.56, it is fun, more practical and more economical, but I didn't care. The power of 7.62x51 is more deeply satisfying. I love shooting this rifle!
S&W lists the MSRP for this rifle at $1619. I got mine out the door for just under that. With its forged receivers, features, performance and price, the S&W M&P-10, in my estimation, is the best value AR 308 on the market. As long as she proves to be reliable and accurate, she'll be a keeper
 
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Good review. Matches my impressions pretty well. I went with the CTR stock as well with the enhanced (thicker) butt plate. I have yet to shoot it with an adjustable gas block (waiting on a suppressor since Feb) and Troy 12.6" free-float hand-guard. It was still manageable with the M4 shoulder meat tenderizer.

Definitely post again when you get the BABC.

Mike
 
...It was still manageable with the M4 shoulder meat tenderizer...

Manageable?!? You're a better man than I, Gunga Din! :)

The CTR I'm using has the thickest pad and I'm glad for it. When used with the 5.56 it helped as it's stickier than the thin pad that originally came with the stock and holds the rifle to the shoulder better. But it's really come into it's own when dealing with the heavier recoil of the 308.

I thought about switching the BABC over to the M&P-10, but the Para is shooting accurately as is and I'm not sure I want to mess with that. It may be awhile before another BABC will fit in the gun budget. I plan to replace the Aimpoint with a Nightforce 2.5x10x32 as I found one used for a price I'd be foolish to say no to. Until I can swing that deal, I'm thinking of temporarily moving a Leupold 10x from another rifle for accuracy testing in the meantime
 
Nice write up. Me thinks you've done this before.. :)
 
Does anyone know what length action spring the S&W M&P10 uses? The buffer is carbine length but the spring is longer than a carbine spring. Is it rifle length? I don't have anything to measure it with or a rifle spring to compare it to. Does anyone know the spring rate? I swapped in an H2 buffer and it helped soften the recoil. I plan to try an H3 buffer when I can get my mitts on one and I'd also like to try a stiffer spring

Thanks!
 
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Does anyone know what length action spring the S&W M&P10 uses? The buffer is carbine length but the spring is longer than a carbine spring. Is it rifle length? I don't have anything to measure it with or a rifle spring to compare it to. Does anyone know the spring rate? I swapped in an H2 buffer and it helped soften the recoil. I plan to try an H3 buffer when I can get my mitts on one and I'd also like to try a stiffer spring

Thanks!

And so it was Smith & Wesson Customer Service was born (and they actually have a phone number too)!

vfin
 
That review belongs in a magazine! Fantastic! Makes me glad I bought my m&p 10. Thanks for the great write-up!!
 
I really want one of those!!!
We have a S & W MP15 pretty well decked out but I want something a little bigger for hog hunting.
Thank's! Great revue!!
 
A couple weekends ago, I shot up the last couple boxes of CAVIM from a battlepack I picked up cheap earlier this year. It turned the big Smith into a T-bolt. I had to cycle the action with every shot. What's strange is I shot up the rest of the battlepack during a trip last summer and the rifle functioned fine. Using the Nightforce 2.5-10, I got a five shot, 5 inch group at 100 yards. I'll have to get some good ammo and try that for groups.
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A couple observations-

I took the trigger out of the lower to grease it up to smooth out the pull a bit. While testing the pull, it dawned on me that it's a two stage. Rough, compared to a G trigger but smoother than most standard AR triggers I've tried. The FCG has a nice smooth coating on all the surfaces and dabbing it with grease made it a bit smoother. Still a bit of grit on the travel, however. I'm giving serious thought to an SD-E. Life is too short to put up with gritty triggers.

I really like the idea of the ambidextrous controls, but the location of the ambi bolt release makes re-installing the hammer a pain. It catches on the coils of the hammer spring. I had to fight to get the hammer in and go back three generations for cuss words before I got it back in and pinned. It came out easily enough!

The RE isn't clocked clocked correctly. I noticed the heel of the stock is canted a bit towards the left of the rifle, almost to the 7 o'clock position. Minor, really and don't affect function but annoying enough to irritate my CDO
 
this might be a dumb question, but does the normal MOE AR15 handguard fit on the M&P10? If i look at your pictures it seems you just swapped them? If so, that would be good since I still have one in my parts bin after I mounted a quadrail on my bushy.
 
Yes, I swapped a standard middy MOE handguard from my AR carbine to the M&P-10
 
It's been a cold winter this year. Not as cold as last year, or as cold as it's been in other parts of the country, but cold enough. It's also been a season of unexpected bills eating away at any extra green I was hoping to find in my wallet. I've been trying to shake a few sheckles loose to build up my stash of ammo, but things like new tires for the Battlestar Victoria and repairs to the motorhome have sucked all that spare change out of the couch.

I've been threatening to rid myself of that dem barbell hanging the end of the M&P-10 and replace it with a BABC. Only problem is cost. The BABC is a bit on the expensive side for an underpaid wolf. There one on the Par FAL and it's performance has been nothing short of outstanding, so I've been reluctant to change it. Finally, I got sick and tired of looking at S&W's version of the Mosin bayonet, removed the BABC & the adaptor from the Para and installed it on the Big Smith. The Belgian Combo Device went back on the Para and the clunky S&W flash hider retired to the parts bin. Both rifles have been shortened signicantly. Along with a reduction in length, with the loss of the BABC, the Para has lost a noticeable amount of Cool Factor but sometimes, sacrifices have to be made.

The BABC shortened the Big Smith by at least an inch. It seems lighter too, although that might be my imagination. I didn't weigh the BABC, but the S&W flash suppressor weighed 4 ozs! Some think that's not much, but that's a good 1/4 lbs. On an 18" barrel, that's 4.5 in/lbs of moment! I'll try to get photos taken and posted soon.

I haven't had a chance to shoot the Big Smith with the BABC, but I hope to soon. I need to get out of the house before I drive my poor wife crazy. I can't wait to see how the Big Smith shoots with the BABC!
 
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UPDATE

A few changes to the Big Smith-

As detailed in another thread, I've changed out the CTR stock for a MagPul Fixed Carbine stock. The Fixed Carbine stock gave me a better cheek weld but the length of pull turned out a bit short. A spacer was made from some PVC tubing and a PRS thick buttpad was added. Much better!
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The MOE pistol grip was replaced by a MOE K2. The angle of the K2 is more comfortable and the texture gives a more secure grip.

The round handguards are a step backwards, but the MOE handguards I had on the Big Smith before needed to return to the AR carbine they were borrowed from. However, if all goes well at the gunshow this weekend, I'll be picking up a rifle length Lancer carbon fiber free float tube for the Big Smith.

At another gunshow, I picked up a couple of MagPul windowed 25 round magazines for $20 each. No way I was going to pass that up!
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Almost makes me feel dirty, peeking in the window at all that 30 caliber goodness.

Finally had a chance to try some commercial rounds. Firing at 200 yards off the bench from an improvised rest produced 3 shot groups between 1.5 and 2.0 moa. Not bad, but there could be some improvement, especially with the shooter. Milsurp gave me 3.0 moa
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The PRS buttpad is a bit hard, but still an improvement in comfort over the thin pad that came with the fixed carbine stock. Didn't fire a lot of rounds on the last three range trips, but there have been no malfunctions with commercial or milsurp ammo. Rifle has been well lubed with Froglube which I'm coming to prefer over anything else I've tried so far.

The rifle was solid to begin with and gets better with each upgrade. But there is still room for improvement. The Big Smith will be getting the Geisele treatment to replace the creepy gritty factory trigger it has now, just as soon as the budget will allow. That and the Lancer free float tube should help shrink up the groups a bit.

It's also time to get an AR cantilever scope mount. What I've got now is a set of rings attached to aluminum riser blocks which are attached to the rail. The scope needs to be pushed forward and it sits just a little too low. So far, I like the scope mount by Aero Precision due to it's low weight, strong design, lack of quick release levers and low cost.

I think with the new handguard, Aero Precision scope mount, G trigger and a sling, the Big Smith will be just about perfect. Then, all it will need is a little touch up paint
 
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Mistwolf,

FWIW, I have several SSA triggers on M4 carbines and one G2S on an M&P 15-22. I just installed a SD-E trigger on my M&P 10. I thought the SSA triggers were the cat's meow, but the SD-E is much lighter. The SD-E is supposed to be 3.5# total vs. the SSA's 4.5#, but the SD-E feels less than 3.5#. They say if you full the trigger at the bottom of bow, it feels lighter. I confirm.
 
Little Creek, I have an SSA trigger in a carbine and an SSA-E in a precision AR. I really like them both! The SSA-E noticeably crisper and lighter than the SSA.

Pressing the trigger at the bottom of the bow will make the pull feel lighter because you're increasing your leverage :)

I'm thinking of a flat bow SSA trigger for the Big Smith. Should be about right for the kind of shooting I want to do with it. How do you like the flat bow compared to the standard curve?

Oh, the BABC works great! Keeps the barrel flat during recoil and I can keep the target inside the field of view of the NF scope when set on 2.5x. A definite improvement over the factory supplied boat anchor S&W calls a muzzle device
 
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