The most iconic all metal 9mm pistols in history...

[italiansport]

When the "average" person think about the 9mm caliber,when they bother to think at all, the pistol that usually comes to mind is the 9mm Luger. Love it or hate it the Luger is still the most famous 9mm pistol around and I don't think anything will ever change this.
Jim

 

[BigBill]

I have pistols but I'm not really a decated pistol guy. I go more for wheel guns.

The luger came in 7,63( 30 mauser) besides 9mm luger. I believe the broomhandle varied in calibers too.

 

[bc1023]

I have pistols but I'm not really a decated pistol guy. I go more for wheel guns.

I've got plenty of those too.

 

[BigBill]

Nothing will change the iconic popularity of the German luger. It's been said here before the German P38/P1 was a better weapon.

When we hear 9mm no one thinks about the 9mm makarov, 9mm Largo, 9x23 win, 380acp, 38 super, 9x21, 357SIG & 9x25 Dillon etc. So many nines and so little time.

 

[FunkyPertwee]

1911 -> BHP -> CZ75

P-38 -> Beretta 1951 -> Beretta 92

Sig P220 -> Sig P226 -> modern polymer frames (ejection port lock-up)

 

[Cdog]

Thank you

I just felt the need to comment on the CZ 75 being a DA Browning variant, because the two pistols have little in common. The premise they're similar has always been a myth. Besides the obvious differences, the CZ's slide rides inside the frame, which is totally different from the Hi Power.

You are of course correct on the internals of these two fine pistols. I've been such a fan of the HP over the years that when I found the D/A CZ that felt so familiar and in my hands shoots so well I spoke my heart and it got ahead of my brain.

It usually cost me $$$ when this happens.(It happens too often)

Thank goodness, this ain't one of those times!

 

[JH1951]

For the iconic 9MM semi-auto I am partial to the Browning Hi-Power. Few other handguns were adopted by so many countries and used so long. It was also one of the few that saw widespread use by both Axis and Allies during WWII. I only have these two now, but through the years have had several more. The pre-war commercial is, in my opinion, a work of art.

This is Nazi version made in Belgium late war - somewhat odd, fixed sights and slotted:

This one is an Inglis Canadian contract piece. Legend holds that they reverse engineered it from a Belgian gun smuggled out after they failed several times to get the technical drawings to the Allies. (No idea what the "Z" on the grips denotes. If you do, please let me know.)

 

[Engine49guy]

What an awesome thread,

Certainly a respectable list, but I can't give S&W that many entries with such similar pistols. I'd venture to say as many people could identify a P210 as they could a few on that list.

I think a Swiss military pistol that transformed into one of the greatest target pistols ever deserves a bit more credit than a 659.

My reasoning was as follows,
Luger : First 9mm Military handgun, BHP : first hi cap 9mm handgun, P-38 : First DA trigger 9mm handgun with decocker, S&W Model 39: First US M&P 9mm handgun, mating the P38 DA trigger & decocker with a 1911 style tilting barrel , S&W Model 59: first US 9mm M&P hi cap DA 9mm blends best features of the BHP and the P38 sets stage for suture of military and Police handguns, Beretta 92: replaced the 1911, CZ-75 : Iconic Eastern Bloc hi cap DA 9mm, HK P-7 : radical new design, small, safe and simple to operate. S&W Model 659: first Stainless steel hi cap 9mm, new safety that disconnected the firing pin instead of just arresting it , basicly changed the handgun game.

Also there was mention of the Luger being available in 7.62 Mauser but I have never heard or seen one before (perhaps confusing 30 Luger with .30 Mauser not the same round) ,
my guess is 30 Mauser is too powerful for the Lugers toggle action.

 

[bc1023]

Good reasoning

Like I mentioned, there are no right or wrong answers here.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I'm not going to argue with you on this one, but. The main problem at the time was proper lubrication, the 39 needs it to run. I've heard and read about I believe it was the Illinois State police was lubing them with WD-40. And with WD_40s propensity to run off and sorta evaporate over time that lead to malfunctions. Now I wasn't there but I do know that with proper maintenance and lubrication my dash 2 has never malfunction with its preferred ammunition and it wasn't too fussy about what it ate.

iconic (merriam webster): Widely known and recognized for distinctive excellence.

Not arguing either, just discussing. Words have meaning. If you have another definition, I'll listen, but the 39 don't hit that one.

 

[hangnoose]

Get your facts straight

Sorry 49, but the bhm did have 6/10 and 20 round mags way prior to the bhp. And it saw service before and during WWl in 9mm, although not as standard issue. While I certainly would NOT choose 1 to go into battle today, in 1896 (no not 9mm yet), it was a marvel. I'm NOT TRYING to detract from the bhp, or others, just relating historical fact. AS a side note, when troops dragged Sudam Hussein from his spider hole, he had a gold plated BHP. OLD/VINTAGE Colt single action revolvers and Winchester levers came in a variety of calibers over time. I don't see this as in ANY way detracting from the design, so IMO lighten up on the BHM and Luger for NOT starting out as 9mm originally, and give some credit where it is due, they did switch to 9mm early on. IMO as No gun expert or historian the BHM and 1911, in the late 1800's to early 1900's stood the world on it's ear and led the way for many "better" semi's to follow, and THAT IS iconic whether by Websters or wilki's definition.

 

[Cyrano]

I yield to no one in my admiration for the broomhandle (I only have 16 of them so far), However there are a few things that should be said about the 9mm broomhandles. First is that the 9mms that appeared before WW I, around 1912, were chambered for the 9mm Mauser Export cartridge, not the 9mm P. the 9mm Mauser was longer but less powerful than the 9mm P: the rear of the barrel extension, where the bolt stop slams into the back of the cut, is liable to peening from more recoil than the 30 Mauser, with its 85 gr bullet is going to produce. Few 9mm Mausers were made.

Second is that the 9mm P pistols were made under contract for the German government during WWI when Germany needed a lot of pistols and wanted them in the military caliber. None were ever sold commercially. A few of the contract went to the police; they don't have the Army acceptance stamp on the right side of the barrel extension, just behind the chamber. A lot of ammo going through a 9mm P caliber broomhandle will produce the peening I described above.

 

[CptCurl]

I think the word "iconic" dictates that the Luger is the only choice here.

I am not disturbed by the fact that the Luger first appeared with the 7.65mm chamber. At that time there was no such thing as the 9mm Parabellum. The 9mm P. cartridge was the child of the Luger. That child grew into the man who eclipsed the original 7.65mm chambering.

Let me point out that the 9mm chamber originally appeared in the 1902 Model of the Luger - dished toggle knobs and all, not in the Mod. 1908.

My earliest 9mm is a Model 1906, of which I have two: one with the American Eagle crest and one without (much more rare).

This is iconic:

I make no claim that this pistol is more reliable, cheaper to produce, more successful, more durable, more lasting, or more anything. I simply think it is the most iconic of the 9mm pistols.

Here's a link to my pistol here on S&W forum: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearms-knives-other-brands/378941-luger-dwm-1906-commercial-9mm.html

To the OP: VERY NICE COLLECTION!

Curl

 

[hangnoose]

GREAT THREAD

Thanks for the schooling. Turns out the Luger was made at least a decade before I thought.

 

[BearBio]

I'm old fashioned and I would go with the following:
1. Mauser 1896==jus 'cuz.
2. 1908 Luger
3 Browning Hi-Power (P-35)
4. Walther P-38
5. S & W M-39

These, I think, were the leaders==the others are just followers.

 

[italiansport]

Certainly a respectable list, but I can't give S&W that many entries with such similar pistols. I'd venture to say as many people could identify a P210 as they could a few on that list.

I think a Swiss military pistol that transformed into one of the greatest target pistols ever deserves a bit more credit than a 659.

Keep one thing in mind here the P210 is based upon the French P35 Petter design. This is probably one of the worst and most under powered pistol calibers of that period. The pistol design itself IMO is decent but the outcome left a lot to be desired. Additionally availability and price has kept this a pretty obscure pistol.

Quote:
"My updated "Iconic metal frame 9mm" short list in the order they appeared is as follows,
Luger (1908), Browning HP (1935), Walther P38 (1938), S&W Model 39 (1955), S&W Model 59 (1971), Beretta 92 (1975), CZ75 (1975), HK P7 (1979), S&W Model 659 (1982). "

I basically agree with your list but I'd switch choices 2 and 3. I think the P38 is a lot more recognizable by the average person then the Hi-Power.

Jim

 

[Engine49guy]

Quote:
"My updated "Iconic metal frame 9mm" short list in the order they appeared is as follows,
Luger (1908), Browning HP (1935), Walther P38 (1938), S&W Model 39 (1955), S&W Model 59 (1971), Beretta 92 (1975), CZ75 (1975), HK P7 (1979), S&W Model 659 (1982). "

I basically agree with your list but I'd switch choices 2 and 3. I think the P38 is a lot more recognizable by the average person then the Hi-Power.

Jim

Funny as I did have the P38 listed 2nd originally but as the BHP was type accepted three years before the P38 I switched them around, ....the precursor to the P38 (The AP) may have appeared around the same time as the BHP but I listed them in order of their appearance in the military or market.

 

[Darkenfast]

I will agree with CptCurl that if we use the word "iconic" in it's broadest sense, then the Luger is the only one of those pistol that makes the list, with the P-38 as a possible. If we use the word "iconic" to mean a pistol that represents a turning point in the evolution of the handgun (and is chambered in 9mm Parabellum), then the Luger gets first place as the gun that introduced the cartridge; the P-38 gets second place for being made in large numbers to replace it (perhaps the largest number of any on the OP's picture), and having various features deemed important in the history of firearms design; and the Browning High Power gets third for being the best all-round military handgun of World War II, and then going on to quite a career during the several decades that followed, until it was dethroned by the Glock.

 

[Darkenfast]

I will also add that if you want to pick them by how revolutionary they are, then the Luger and the HK P-7 are the two standouts.

 

[45A]

Excellent diverse collection. The P38 design led to later models such as the P5 and Beretta used the locking block design. Hard to pick a favorite but I am a fan of the BHP. The Lugers are truly unique.