The Once Great Remington

[Narragansett]

The RP9 and RP45 are not exactly brand new. A quick search of youtube and the rest of the Web will turn up numerous range reviews. One issue with the RP9 was the first round being tossed out of the gun if you slapped the mag in with any vigor. I don't know if that's been fixed, but the AR review was damning with faint praise if you ask me.

As for the MSRP, I ignore that on all products these days except maybe Porsches. The RP9 has been fire-saled by at least one wholesaler for $300 or less in the last 12 months.

I NEVER pay MSRP. As a contractor and businessman, I never got to sell for MSRP, and I won't pay it.

Lots of places say the mfgr will not let us sell below that. That is baloney. The mfgr and wholesaler already got their cut. Who are they to dictate retail price, and a margin that the end retailer must work on?

 

[The Norseman]

Remington Forever

I always look at Remington's at Gun Shops.
I must be lucky, they are always in Top Order.

I like the Remington Model 7. I had a Circa 90's
Syn SS 223. It was well made. Very Accurate with
my Hornady 50gr V Max reload. Sold it probably
for my current Model 7 308.

My Circa '07 Rem Model 7 308 is Sny w/the black
finish. It too is well made and has been very
accurate and fun to shoot.

My Bother has the Circa '08 Rem R1 1911 45ACP.
I cleaned it for him once. Very well made, Machining
Expertly done, and Finished done very well.
It shot different ammo and my reloads without a
problem. I was impressed!

A friends 2017 Marlin SBL 45-70 Govt, also very well
made and finished done well. Action is smooth. Very
Accurate with my 300gr LRNFP/IMP 4198 reloads
I made for him.

Go Remington!

Picture shows the Model 7 SS I used to
have.

 

[Sistema1927]

You haven't purchased anything from them in the past 22 years, so why would they consider your opinion important?

Not being snarky here, just stating a fact. For example, I am not in Carl's Jr./Hardees demographic, so they don't cater to my needs and I don't care what they have on their menu.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I think guns may be a lot like music, we all like the classics and the classics for any given person is what was new and popular when they were young or sometimes what our parents or grandparents liked. Stuff made today was not made to last like it once was. Time was a man had a very few guns and made do with them for a lifetime. They had to last. Now folks who have guns tend to have a number of guns and life does not depend for decades on any one gun. In buying those guns, we are not willing to pay for the strict quality of the days of yore, because we don't need it. The MBA's and consultants have figured out that we will collectively reward gun makers better if they don't "overdue" the quality. They make an effort, but as you can read on this forum, the quality has suffered, but if you want to know who to blame, look in the mirror.

Don't stereotype me! I disagree with most of what you said. People will still pay for quality. If you're a junk buyer, so be it.

 

[Farmer17]

A couple of years ago we were driving down the road and see a Walmart and my wife said she needed to go in to pick up a few things. I pull in the parking lot and realize this was BLACK FRIDAY, and said "I don't want to go near that place"! My wife said she really needed some things so she talked me into it and we went inside and I go through sporting goods and see a Remington 700 BDL 30-06 with gorgeous wood on sale for $377.00! I quickly grabbed it and it was an outstanding gun in every way, beautiful, accurate, great trigger and great craftsmanship. It kicked like a mule with that hard plastic butt plate and also a buddy wanted it really bad and he lets me hunt on his property so I sold it to him for what I had in it, but it was an excellent rifle.

 

[F75gunslinger]

I understand the comment about look in the mirror. we the people have not put our foot down, and accept less than acceptable quality, and we continue to buy.

I have not bought a new gun since 1992. Most everything else I own is 1950 to 1980. Some older than 1950. Why?? I like quality, and my sons will have the opportunity some day to have that same quality

I think that educated gun owners do just that. But there are many that either only see price point ( cheap guns ) or they are new buyers who have heard the name repeatedly and know the past reputation but not the current one.

There has been a large number of companies sold over the last 10 or 20 years that still sell well because of reputation, but they aren't made to the quality that they once were. A good example is anything that is currently owned by MTD. Cub Cadet, Troy Built etc. Those companies had stellar reputations for quality equipment. Now they're not anything special. But the price point is still sky high.

In Remington's case it was more rushing to get a product to market and not doing their due diligence in R+D. Then not giving good service when the product wasn't right. That and bean counters making cuts wherever they could.

 

[Bobby B.]

I got on a 10mm kick awhile ago and couldn't bring myself to buy a delta elite due to the unsupported chamber. By chance I ran into an R1 hunter long slide in a LGS. Checked it over and bought it. Fully supported ramped barrel. It is incredibly accurate and functions perfectly with both my reloads and factory ammo. The Trigger is too heavy but that's my only complaint.

 

[Patrick L]

First off, I agree. I'm from the Albany area. Big Green used to be a great NYS gun company. I was "Mr. 870" (I've owned six, all walnut Wingmasters and all pre 1990 plus two 1970s 1100s) and there was never a stronger Remington fan than me. I remember when on the rare occasion you had a problem, you drove out to Ilion, handed your gun to the guard at the entrance, he filled out a tag and said "go get yourself a bite to eat, stop back in an hour or so" and your gun was generally ready to go, restored to like new. Those days are no more.

I think the previous poster said it very well, we are mostly somewhat more educated gun buyers. There is very little money to be made off of us. We have such specific wants and needs. I generally buy used guns which are EXACTLY what I want. The big companies want/need to sell lots of guns, so they cater to the mass market of buyers.

I'm not totally excusing Big Green, but I sort of get it. It's sort of like when the real old-timers talk about Winchester and 1964.

 

[JayFramer]

Bought a new 870 Police three years ago and it’s been really great. Shot the living hell out of it with all kinds of shells, 0 problems. I trust it with my life. I understand the Express models made today are not well thought of and their pistols are to be avoided at all costs.

 

[Narragansett]

You haven't purchased anything from them in the past 22 years, so why would they consider your opinion important?

Not being snarky here, just stating a fact. For example, I am not in Carl's Jr./Hardees demographic, so they don't cater to my needs and I don't care what they have on their menu.

It would be 32 years, not 22.

They don't have to consider my opinion, but my opinion is not alone. I think they need to consider somebody's opinion, because they are not doing well on their own.

I support their success only as it contributes to the gun industry and creating jobs for the generations that have worked for them. For those reasons, they need to make quality products, and regain their position as an industry leader.

As I said though, my reasons for not choosing to buy their products are personal, and not related to their product quality.

 

[Patrick L]

It's hard to talk about the decline in quality if you have no personal experience with the older stuff. When I complain about the lack of quality of the current 870s, I'm comparing them to mine, which are all at least 30 years old,some closer to 50. Those old ones were smooth! And it's not the finish issue, I totally get the concept of the more utility grade Express model, but even the original Expresses (I think they were introduced as "special purpose" back in the 80s) we're much superior guns imo. The recent ones I've handled felt like they had sand in the action. I see lots of guys having feed issues with them too. Of course, since they all need to cycle 3 1/2 inch sausages probably doesn't help.

Man I'm starting to sound like those old guys that I used to shoot with!

 

[NYlakesider]

I have a 700BDL 25.06 I purchased new about 1973. Gun has been well used and maintained. With the way Remington's "QUALITY" of today no way would I ever considering getting rid of it.

I have two shooter sons and both grew up firing that gun and both would like to inherit it. To keep down problems in the family when I'm not around to referee the gun will go to the winner of a coin toss. Wife is a shooter but likes .22 rifles and all sorts of handguns so she is not wanting that rifle.

 

[Bubba2014]

Many years ago I got fed up with the quality of Remington 870's, so started buying FN shotguns for department issue. Never had problems with the FN's.

 

[Echo40]

Sadly, Remington's current CEO is former Taurus International CEO, Anthony Accitelli. Not to knock Taurus or anything, but they most certainly dipped in quality during Accitelli's term as CEO, ergo I wouldn't expect quality to improve while he's at the helm.

It's a real shame too considering that I love the look of the R51 and would like to own a Marlin 1895, but I just don't trust the brand enough to put money on either when there are other options.

All
I recently bought a Rem. 1911. 45 ACP. Love it. Works as it should. Very reliable. Even came with two mags.
I have enough older Rem. rifles and shotguns that I won't need a new one for at least a 100 years.
If you don't like the new gear, go buy an old version. They made plenty of them.
Pic of new.
Pic of old.
Bill@Yuma

To be fair, current Remington 1911s are actually rebranded Para Ordnance 1911s, whom Remington acquired some years ago and now has making 1911s under their banner.

 

[THEmodelof1989]

I NEVER pay MSRP. As a contractor and businessman, I never got to sell for MSRP, and I won't pay it.

Lots of places say the mfgr will not let us sell below that. That is baloney. The mfgr and wholesaler already got their cut. Who are they to dictate retail price, and a margin that the end retailer must work on?

It's not baloney unfortunately. We had a local dealer that was selling SCCY's when they first came out for under $200. He did that to get people in the door and it worked; he sold a wad of guns not making anything off the SCCYs. HOWEVER, the other local FFLs that we're getting undercut below the manufacturers suggested retail started complaining to said manufacturer. SCCY got in touch with the undercutting dealer and told him if he didn't play ball, they wouldn't let him distribute for them anymore; he folded, and now sells at minimum suggested retail.

Why? For the same reason the American government pays farmers to NOT grow their crops every few years or so. If the market gets flooded with wheat, wheat is worth less due to the surplus. The same holds true for firearms.

The market must be regulated to avoid another Great Depression.

 

[hkcavalier]

It's called MAP (minimum advertised pricing) and it's a perfectly legal agreement between OEMs and resellers.

 

[Narragansett]

It's called MAP (minimum advertised pricing) and it's a perfectly legal agreement between OEMs and resellers.

That is fine, sugar coat it any way you want but I will not pay it. There is always someone that is willing to negotiate. A smart business man realizes he wants a part of something rather than 100% of nothing

 

[Early Bird Dave]

I love my old nylon! Great gun! I remember a year-and-a-half ago when they were offering huge rebates on the R51 and another Remington plastic gun. I just stuck to my Sig's. Reviews on the Remingtons were horrible.
So to be honest, I have not owned a new Remington. Just too many bad reviews.

 

[clang444]

How far back are we talking? This one is over 100 years old and still going strong:

I understand hand engraving is way too expensive for guns today, but when Rem went with pressed checkering, it killed it for me.

 

[Jdavis]

Not all newer Remington firearms are bad news. I have owned a Marlin model 60 (Remlin) Anniversary edition that has run flawlessly and loves Remington Golden Bullets. I have an Enhanced SS R1 that shoots better than my Colts ever did. I can say nothing negative about either of these newer Remingtons. The comment that they don’t build the like they used to is correct but, newer production equipment and methods aren’t always bad. No current firearms manufacturer builds them like they used to or they would be out of business in short order. This applies to our S&Ws as well. Read practically any forum and read the whining about quality control going to pot. I hope that Remington can overcome it’s problems and regain it’s place as one of America’s leading gunmakers.