The rarest Model 1911 pistols ever made...

[jeffrefrig]

So, PALADIN85020, I take it for granted those pics didn't come with a range report?
Of the 100, does anybody know are they all accounted for, or would that be almost impossible to know?

 

[PALADIN85020]

Ain't many Remington UMC 1911's either. I've no idea how many were produced.

Rem-UMC delivered 21,677 1911s through May 1919.

I was lucky enough to have found one of those many years ago. As a matter of fact, it's the only one I've ever encountered - found in Albuquerque NM in the 1970s.

This Model 1911 pistol was made by the Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Company in Bridgeport Connecticut. It was one of 1,353 pistols shipped to the Ordnance Corps, U.S. Army, on October 10, 1918, about a month before WWI ended.

John

 

[PALADIN85020]

So, PALADIN85020, I take it for granted those pics didn't come with a range report?
Of the 100, does anybody know are they all accounted for, or would that be almost impossible to know?

Yep, almost impossible to know -

John

 

[Hill536]

So, PALADIN85020, I take it for granted those pics didn't come with a range report?
Of the 100, does anybody know are they all accounted for, or would that be almost impossible to know?

Understand we are talking Unicorns here. Having been in discussions with a buddy who owns one not far from what I thought you were displaying “84” there was discussion by him that he had seen pistols numbering in the 200 & 300 range.

Incidentally, I passed on the NAA he owns because so little back when was known. I also believe it was he who displayed his at the OGCA

 

[gregintenn]

I was lucky enough to have found one of those many years ago. As a matter of fact, it's the only one I've ever encountered - found in Albuquerque NM in the 1970s.

This Model 1911 pistol was made by the Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Company in Bridgeport Connecticut. It was one of 1,353 pistols shipped to the Ordnance Corps, U.S. Army, on October 10, 1918, about a month before WWI ended.

John

Color me green with envy. That is a grail gun for me and you have what appears to be a very nice example.


I have a pretty nice Remington Rand which is common, but no Remington UMC. For some reason, I would walk right past a Singer for a chance at one of these.

 

[kwill1911]

Yep, almost impossible to know -

John

I've documented 55 of them in the last 25+ years. It is the rarest of the M1911 manufacturers but there are lots of ways to describe M1911 and M1911A1 variations and some are more rare. As collectors, we're quirky like that.

 

[BigBill]

I’m happy with my AO US Army 1911a1 $389 nib years ago. I seen higher crazy prices on 1911’s by different manufacturers I never heard of.

 

[pharman]

May OGCA meeting

There is a gentleman that shows one at OGCA. I have seen it. He doesn’t have a price on it, it really is there to be shown and talked about. I’m sure that he would sell it, but I have no idea what kind of money it would require to get it.

I should add that it’s been more than a year since I have seen it — but this isn’t to say that it won’t be there at the next show or that it hasn’t been there at every show, I’m simply saying that I haven’t looked for it or noticed. I tend to keep moving past tables loaded with guns of this vintage. Sure, I like them, but these are not what I’m chasing, so I tend to keep moving.

If I see it again, I think I’ll ask him a bit about it so I can share it here.

PALLADIN85020... is the one you show in your picture in your collection?

Hi Sevens...I will be at the May OGCA meeting...I would like to look at this pistol as my son-in-law will be attending with me and he really likes 1911's (not that I can afford to buy it)...can you please PM me the dealer's name and location (if possible) at OGCA that has this...I would appreciate this...I will have a table there, but as of yet do not know my location...Thanks...Roger

 

[chief38]

Quite interesting - I was unaware of this variant. Thanks for posting John!

 

[03hemi]

Of course, with the internet they'd never figure out how much it was worth today? lol

 

[stansdds]

A word of caution regarding the M-1911's produced in small quantities. There are forgeries floating around in the 1911 collector world, some can look very convincing.

 

[Hill536]

I've documented 55 of them in the last 25+ years. It is the rarest of the M1911 manufacturers but there are lots of ways to describe M1911 and M1911A1 variations and some are more rare. As collectors, we're quirky like that.

Kevin, I have a question! As I replied to the OP In examining my buddy’s. NAA, and then another I detected a copper undertone to the blued finish. Now this is unlike the natural “browning” of the finish you come to expect on old pistols.

Curious as to your opinion.

 

[kwill1911]

I've checked the standard references (Clawson, Meadows, et al) and did not find any indication that these had some kind of unusual bluing. So many of these have little to no finish, or have been refinished, or have been nickel plated and then stripped that I'm not sure there is much consistency to the finishes any more.

BTW, SN 34 sold in 2002 for $15,000. It was sold again in 2014 for $34,500. The high water mark for a NAA pistol is $218,500 for SN 73 sold in 2018.

 

[TheHobbyist]

@ the Op, John, I submit this primarily for your enjoyment and interest:

When I first started to get into handguns at 21, from a purchasing perspective, old Cowboy movies and stuff always had my interest from an earlier age, I bought an old Colt 1911.

I didn't fully realize what I had at the time. I bought one o the first QTY 12, purchased by the Navy if I recall correctly in 1911-1912. It was not perfect, had some condition issues (expected)...and I sold it to an older gentlemen whom I had known through another hobby. At the time, I only knew it was old, cleaned it, non-invasively and hung on to it for a few years, eventually adding ivory grips. This was many years ago now...

Sold the gun with the grips for $1K or approx. what I had into it.

Last time I saw it for sale, locally (as I have no idea what happened to it), it sold for north of $8K. No regrets here, just wish that I knew what I know now, when I was younger.

 

[RWPBR]

I believe the small batch of 1911s H&R made as a test are rarer.. 20 pieces maybe

 

[PALADIN85020]

@ the Op, John, I submit this primarily for your enjoyment and interest:

When I first started to get into handguns at 21, from a purchasing perspective, old Cowboy movies and stuff always had my interest from an earlier age, I bought an old Colt 1911.

I didn't fully realize what I had at the time. I bought one o the first QTY 12, purchased by the Navy if I recall correctly in 1911-1912. It was not perfect, had some condition issues (expected)...and I sold it to an older gentlemen whom I had known through another hobby. At the time, I only knew it was old, cleaned it, non-invasively and hung on to it for a few years, eventually adding ivory grips. This was many years ago now...

Sold the gun with the grips for $1K or approx. what I had into it.

Last time I saw it for sale, locally (as I have no idea what happened to it), it sold for north of $8K. No regrets here, just wish that I knew what I know now, when I was younger.

Too fast we get old, and too late we get smart. I collect U.S. military small arms, and in the middle '60s, I had the opportunity to buy a Model 1865 trapdoor Springfield rifle for $150. It even had the "ESA" cartouche of Springfield Armory's Erskin Allin in the stock. That was a lot of money to me then, so I let it go. Now if you know, as I do now, that this was the very first trapdoor Springfield conversion rifle, chambered in .58 rimfire, you would have grabbed it at nearly any price. They are as scarce as frog hair, and I've not seen another one since. And I've been kicking myself ever since....

Here's what one of these looks like - if you ever run across one for $150 - well, let me know!

John

 

[murf205]

2 yrs ago at a gun show in Birmingham, I saw a Singer for $750. Naturally I was fresh broke from buying 2 S&W revolvers and I'm just not a 1911 guy anyhow(only have 3). On the last day of the show, it was still there and the man and his wife were packing up to leave. I have to remind myself that it is only a good deal if you need or want it. Prolly why I'll never be wealthy!

 

[PALADIN85020]

2 yrs ago at a gun show in Birmingham, I saw a Singer for $750. Naturally I was fresh broke from buying 2 S&W revolvers and I'm just not a 1911 guy anyhow(only have 3). On the last day of the show, it was still there and the man and his wife were packing up to leave. I have to remind myself that it is only a good deal if you need or want it. Prolly why I'll never be wealthy!

$750 sounds too good to be true - and it probably was. There are probably more fakes out there than the real deal Singers!

John

 

[IrishFritz]

The North American arms pistols are interesting in that they never got beyond tool room prototype stage and the correct tolerances were never achieved. The frame rails are significantly wider than Colt so you can put a NAA slide on a Colt but not the other way round. The hammers , thumb safeties and slide releases were never checkered and the triggers were hand fitted and the serial numbers were stamped on the left flat of the trigger. Back in the 1970's a significant number of fakes were produced to facilitate illegal importation of real pistols into the US while returning fake pistols back to Canada. Some of the fakes have subsequently been imported back into the States with a veneer of originality and there are now a few pistols in circulation that that have duplicate serial numbers. Like everything else in life Caveat Emptor.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I believe the small batch of 1911s H&R made as a test are rarer.. 20 pieces maybe

Tell us more - when? Why? Government order? What happened to them?

Thanks -

John